Escape and Evasion reports

[Berlin-Bob]

Hi Ann, Hi Brian,

just a few technical thoughts:

if you are going to work together on this, or pool data, then why not talk about a suitable format first, so it's easy to exchange.  (If the TNA is the 'recipient', then maybe you should be discussing it with them first).

If not the TNA, then my suggestion would be an excel file. This has the advantage, that it is easily converted to CSV (comma-separated) files, and makes another possibility feasible:

how about putting your findings on a RootsChat website ??

I could write a program for you to add CSV files to a database (similar to the 1901 Leftovers site, http://1901census.rootschat.com/ ) and to display them, and then all you have to do is upload the CSV files, and add them to the data base, any time you have a fresh batch ready.

Happy to help,
Bob

[ADM199]

Hi Bob,
           many thanks for the technical info and other suggestions,but the whole issue will be complete quite soon. I have been working on the project for about a year now. Another 1,000 frames on my hard drive to type up and one more visit to T.N.A. should about finish the job. I will discuss possibilities at T.N.A. when the job is complete.Perhaps the format could be converted after completion,if need be. There will perhaps be Copyright issues to discuss also. Hopefully a paper copy will be in the Research Enquiries Room.                                                                                                                                                                               Over 10yrs ago I recognised the need for such information,but hadn't had the time to take it on until recently. I will have to give a lot of serious thought soon to where else to place the work.
Ann,
         Sorry to hear about your medical reasons for being in the area. During the period classed as High season the Travelodge offers are not so good, but at other times you can get a night for as little as £15 if you book well in advance. This week I managed one night at £15 by staying on the M4 Eastbound.The other night cost me £26 by staying on the M4 Westbound. On the 18th I will be stopping at Kew Bridge for one night,cost is £26 .   These bookings were made some weeks ago.   From the look of the Web site the offers for the next few months will not be so generous.
At present I have up to WO208/4269 of the Swiss Reports in the bag so to speak,so there are only 7 more Files to copy. All those from WO208/4238 in this group are complete. As I said in another message there are none of the other Reports left to work on as they have all been done now.
Some of the earlier work on the E & E Files is in the I.W.M. at Duxford along with some of my research on the N/African Campaign. There are also copies in Australia and New Zealand,with my research contacts.

Best  Wishes to you both
                         
                                    Brian

[annsa]

Hi Brian,

Somewhere like Rotschat would probably be a good place to put the information. I don't know whether the NA will have any copyright issues, I know that when I talked to them about going through the E&Es and making an index they were very interested, evidently something that they have wanted to do but had been unable to find the manpower to do it. It will be an invaluable resource for a lot of people but in order to it to be really useful it needs to be online in some form as there are many overseas researchers that are trying to get information. One of the original reasons that I started to look at the E&E reports was because I had been contacted a few times, by relatives of escapers/evaders who , in the case of some, had helped many allied servicemen. I was hoping if the files could be looked at an indexed, then we would be able to cross reference that info with the names of helpers. Of course, as you know, not all the reports are complete and so you don't always find the appendix with the information on helpers etc. For those that have never looked at them, they do have a lot of information in them and some can even bring a smile to your face.  Although not in the E&Es, but in the Liberation files I found one for a Lt Szegda who was involved in the battle for Arnhem here below the first bit of the report which made me chuckle:

'MAPS USED:  HOLLAND 1:100,000.  S. HERTOGENBOSCH. Sheet 5.

 

17 Sep 44 - Our Horon No.478 landed about 1400 hrs. at approx. [Map Reference] 227385 East of UDENHOUT.  With us was S/Sgt W. CRAM 3656512 G.P.R. [Glider Pilot Regiment] R.A.F. Station: KEEVIL, WILTS.  Private Address:  41 BROUGHTON ROAD, SULFORD, LANCS.  There was also Sgt J. WHITEHEAD 3528646 G.P.R.  R.A.F. KEEVIL.

 

Landing - We landed near UDENHOUT, because the pilot had lost sight of the tug in cloud, and had cast off.

 

Move off towards GRAVE - The six of us moved off in two Jeeps to get to GRAVE 6253 to join up with some U.S.A. Airborne, whose objective was to take the town.

 

Shoot at Germans - On the way we passed many Germans, quite a number of which we shot from the Jeep.  As we proceeded the enemy became more numerous and our ammunition would have given out, if we had fought a pitched battle.  So I decided to turn off in the direction of BEST 3726.

 

S/Sgt CRAM PW [Prisoner of War] - While we were going round a corner in the village of ESCH 3137 at about 35 m.p.h. Sgt. WHITEHEAD shouted to me to stop, but as he had a strong LANCASHIRE accent, I could not understand what he intended to convey.  We were in the second Jeep as LUITWIELER being a Dutchman had been in charge of the leading Jeep, so that he could ask civilians for any information.  What Sgt. WHITEHEAD actually said was "My mate has fallen out of the Jeep". i.e. the one we were in, but as I could not understand clearly what he said I ordered the driver to carry on.  It is presumed that S/Sgt CRAM is PW.  The Dutch later confirmed this.'


Poor old Cram!!! What I want to know is what Cram had to say in his PoW report. I do hope that all the bits are there and am intending to look for it next time I go to the NA. If anyone has it or is related to Cram I would love to know what he thought.

All the best,

Ann

[ADM199]

Hi Ann,
           T.N.A. started the project a few years ago by copying at their expense the first pages of all the reports that were available at that time.The project was taken on by a friend who abandoned it after a while due to a"Personality" Clash. T.N.A. experts are not always as infallible as they like to think . Last year I took a copy of the first 30 volumes that had been completed to T.N.A. A message was sent by one of the staff to the appropriate person that I had a paper copy for him. He was told where I was working but apparently declined the offer.
Yes there are many reports missing,almost 2,000 from the Post D Day group. A friend in Australia aquired a list from Berne of all those from the allied forces who arrive in Switzerland. It contains over 5,000 names,15 are missing from the "As"according to T.N.A.Files.
Now regarding amusing statements ; A P.O.W. from the West Yorks Regiment tried to Escape from a Camp in Poland but was soon caught. As he was an N.C.O. He didn't go out of the Camp on work parties. Being very determined to get away he changed identities with a Private so he could get out of the Camp. After a while he had made the necessary contacts and got away from the Work party.
He was obviously a very practical man as according to his statement his first week of freedom was spent in the local Brothel.
He stayed in the area until it was Liberated. I'll not publish his name.

                              Best  Wishes
                                Brian

[annsa]

Hi Brian,

I like that story. I bet the debriefers had a chuckle about it too. Some ofthe comments made about the escape equipment that some of the aircrew were issued with makes good reading as well.
Anyway, I have just had my newsletter from the NA which says:
News
 

Find the hero in your family tree
 

You can now search and download recommendations for honours and awards to British army and Dominions personnel.

Flight Lieutenant Oliver Philpot's famous 'Wooden Horse' escape, immortalised in the film of the same name, is just one of the fascinating stories.


Often when these first come out they are free to download, so I'm off to look!!

All the best,

Ann

[ADM199]

Hi Ann,
             I get the same newsletter. There is also further amusement in christian names .I came across one this morning who's second initial was F.for Flower.

                              Best Wishes
                                          Brian

[annsa]

Hi Brian,

You may be interested in this part of the National Archives site. I would think that you would be the sort of person that they are looking for to contribute:

http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Home_page

All the best,

Ann

[ADM199]

Hi Ann,
           I think it is a very good idea to try and get readers to pool specific information. I added a little to one document when the system first started . Mostly a one line description doesn't tell much about a File. One particularly springs to mind"Italian Camp Staff" was all that was indicated,but when it was opened it contained comprehensive lists of Camp Staff  in Germany and the Far East.

Providing people are prepared to give the information it should be a great help.

                    Best  Wishes
                                     Brian

[liverpool lass]

I have just flicked throught he posts on this thread and am wondering if any of you have ever heard a story about a naval escape from Singapore just after it was invaded. My father was part of this group. I gather they had to steal a boat and after several 'adventures' were picked up by a naval vessel and taken to Freemantle in Australia. My dad never talked about his war experiences and this is a story that we would like to investigate. Where do I start? I have tried Google and the BBC war memories site but no luck.