HOGGAN

[JAP]

Rosemary,

Have you searched on SP for the death certificates of John HOGGAN and Catherine (LOGAN) HOGGAN?  The certificates should list their parents' names - father's name and occupation, and mother's maiden name (if the informant knew these details).  Also, do you know that deaths of married women are indexed on SP under both their married and (if known i.e. if listed on the death certificate) maiden surnames.

If you find the names of John's and Catherine's parents, you then might be able to find the deaths of those parents (IF they survived until the time of statutory registration) and this could take you back yet another generation.

Are you aware that there are different types of records in the IGI?  There are entries transcribed (under the LDS controlled extraction program) from church registers and statutory registers - these are usually reliable (although it is always wise to check the primary source).  There are also entries submitted by members of the LDS church - much more care needs to be taken with these.  Sometimes they are reliable but sometimes they are little more than quesswork.

In Scotland, from 1855 (when statutory registration began) until 1875, birth and marriage entries were transcribed into the IGI from the statutory registers - so it's certainly cheaper to search in the IGI first before going to ScotlandsPeople!

Extracted entries for your family seem to be:
John HOGGAN married Catherine LOGAN, 30 Aug 1853, Denny.
This is not a 'marriage certificate' but just an entry extracted from the register of the Parish Church of Denny.
You could order a copy of the full entry from SP (expensive), or you could order in the relevant film to your local LDS Family History Centre and look at the full entry yourself.  Usually the entries in the parish register provide very little information (often just the calling of Banns and perhaps not even whether the marriage actually took place!) but sometimes you can get lucky and find further information.

Extracted entries (all from the statutory register) for children of the couple are:
In Denny
*Catherine Snadden 1858 (surname transcribed as HOGGANS)
*Jane 1865
In Bothkennar
*Janet 1868
*Andrew 1870
*Alexander 1872

There are also three entries submitted by members of the LDS:
Robert Sneddor (sic) 1856 and Margaret Taylor 1862, both Denny.  Also John 1860 Denny - though the mother's name is rendered as HOGAN.

IF the submitted entries are correct then, looking at the dates of children vis-a-vis the date of marriage, one might suspect that John and Catherine were likely to have had at least one child (possibly not recorded) before statutory registration began.

Why are the extracted entries incomplete in the IGI?  I don't know - unless John and Catherine failed to register some children; or perhaps they are hiding under a mistranscription of the surname; or perhaps the transcribers simply missed them.  Which of the children did you find on SP?  And did you look at the family in the 1871 census there?

Cheers,

JAP

[moscan]

Had a couple of credits so checked the deaths like Jap advised... found the death of John Hoggan who was married to Catherine Logan Hoggan.... details as follows:-

John Hoggan (Coalminer) Married to Catherine Hoggan nee Logan died November 15th 1891 at 9.50 am at Old Pit Bothkennar aged 61 years of age.  His parents names as listed as William Hoggan ( coalminer ) and Margaret Hoggan nee Taylor

Cause of death is listed as:-  Bronchitis 10 days; Asthma 6 months; Disease of the heart 2 years as certified by W. Walker MD

Death Registered by John Mannon ( I am not sure of this )     Son in law not present.


Best wishes

Mo

[JAP]

Mo,

You are always generously spending your credits on others!

The marriage of William and Margaret is in the IGI - but they don't seem to have baptized their children unfortunately (or at least not in the Established Church of Scotland).

William HOGGAN m Margaret TAYLOR, 4 Dec 1827, Denny.

JAP

[PBN]

Hello My name is Roy Hoggan and I live in South Africa. My grandfather John Raymond Hoggan came to S A during the Anglo Boer war and served with the British forces in a mounted regiment. His grandfather was Major George Henry Welland Hoggan who was born in 1835 and died in England in 1892. My grandfather was born in approximately 1876. He had a grand aunt Eleanor who lived in Midlothian Scotland. My grandfather may have been born in India or South America. His people were apparently Scots who served in India. GHW was in the 17th Bengal cavalry. I would like to know who JR's father was. His mother remarried and was Eva F Rowe. She lived in Brixton London at the beginning of the 20 th century. Any help will be appreciated.

[PBN]

Greydog.
We are researching the same HOGGAN family. George Welland HOGGAN was the son of John HOGGAN and Frances Willard. John was born in Keir Scotland in 1789 and died in India in 1861. He was the 2nd son of Major George HOGGAn. John died at Davlah, East India. On his Memoerial stone in the Family Cemetery is inscribed"He served honourably through the Nepall in Afghan, the Sikk Campaign. John's son was quite a famous soldier Maj. General J.W.Hoggan. Type this name into Google and you will get his history. He died in Edinburgh on November 23, 1900 aged 67.
We visited the HOGGAN graveyard in Keir Scotland 2 weeks ago.
My huband is also a direcr descendant of this line.
Regards
PBN

[RoseCanada]

Hi Roy,

Second time I'm starting this note.........hopefully, it won't disappear again.  In an effort to connect Hoggans, I've 2600 of them in this groaning computer program of mine.  I put in your two names, but didn't come up with anything.  I do have the LDS Hoggans from India, so perhaps we could do some matching.  Is this a relative of yours:  http://www.members.dca.net/fbl/phoggan.html#5
Would love to talk with you more.  (*)

Rosemary

Hello My name is Roy Hoggan and I live in South Africa. My grandfather John Raymond Hoggan came to S A during the Anglo Boer war and served with the British forces in a mounted regiment. His grandfather was Major George Henry Welland Hoggan who was born in 1835 and died in England in 1892. My grandfather was born in approximately 1876. He had a grand aunt Eleanor who lived in Midlothian Scotland. My grandfather may have been born in India or South America. His people were apparently Scots who served in India. GHW was in the 17th Bengal cavalry. I would like to know who JR's father was. His mother remarried and was Eva F Rowe. She lived in Brixton London at the beginning of the 20 th century. Any help will be appreciated.

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[RoseCanada]

Hi Moscan......
This is my family, but I think you are responding to the delightful reply from JAP??  I am computer literate, but I really don't understand this site......so I guess I'm not.

If you tie into John Hoggan and Catherine Logan, I'd love to talk with you.  (*)

Had a couple of credits so checked the deaths like Jap advised... found the death of John Hoggan who was married to Catherine Logan Hoggan.... details as follows:-

John Hoggan (Coalminer) Married to Catherine Hoggan nee Logan died November 15th 1891 at 9.50 am at Old Pit Bothkennar aged 61 years of age.  His parents names as listed as William Hoggan ( coalminer ) and Margaret Hoggan nee Taylor

Cause of death is listed as:-  Bronchitis 10 days; Asthma 6 months; Disease of the heart 2 years as certified by W. Walker MD

Death Registered by John Mannon ( I am not sure of this )     Son in law not present.


Best wishes

Mo

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[RoseCanada]

Hi JAP,

Thanks for so much for the lengthy reply.  I wish you had been around at the beginning of all my Hogganing!

I have the death certificates for both John HOGGAN and Catherine LOGAN HOGGAN.  Catherine's parents are listed as Alexander LOGAN and Catherine SNEDDON, but I can find no marriage or death certificates for them.

It's terrific that SP lists a married woman's death under the maiden name too.  My paternal grandmother's marriage is actually listed under three names.......what a surprise that was.

LDS has been very useful, but you are quite right, there are errors.
I do have the SP extract for John HOGGAN and Catherine LOGAN and as well John's parents William HOGGAN and Margaret TAYLOR
There was no useful information on either.

I have managed to find all the 10 children of John and Catherine and have birth certificates for all but Agnes HOGGAN who seems to have been the first child -- about 1851 (pre-marriage). I do have her marriage and death certificate.

The children were:
1)  Agnes  b. abt.1851  d. Dec. 27, 1887 Married to William Cook
Children:  Robert, Mary Allan, and Catherine
2) William   b.  Apr. 6, 1853  d.  Apr. 12, 1940 in Esquimalt, BC Canada He was married twice:  Maggie Fleming, and Clementina Muirhead. He died living with his sister Margaret, and Clementina died in Scotland. Wonder the why of that one?  His children with Maggie Fleming were Jane and John.
3) Robert Sneddon b. Jan. 25, 1856  d. Dec. 21, 1919 in Alberta, Canada.  Married to Margaret Easton.  Children: John, Janet Cowan, Catherine Logan, George Easton, Robert Sneddon, William Wellington, Margaret Easton, Agnes Easton
4)  Catherine Sneddon b.  Apr. 2, 1858  married to Archibald Downs.  One child found...so far.....John.  The rest of their life is still to be found.
5)  John  b. June 4, 1860  married to Margaret Campbell Easton.  I believe they came to Canada as well, but more research to be done.
6)  Margaret Taylor b. Dec. 8, 1862  d.  Dec. 11, 1941 Esquimalt, BC, Canada.  She married John Manson and had these children in Scotland before emigrating:  Catherine, Jessie, George, John, and Margaret.
7)  Jane  b.  Mar. 11, 1865  d.  May 16, 1950 in Ladysmith, BC Canada.  She married James Steel Dick. Children:  Catherine, Walter, Elizabeth Steel, John, Jessie, Robert Hoggan Sneddon, Isabella, Ann, Christina Hunter Dick (my cousin, but also my aunt) and James.
8.  Janet  b. May 10, 1868  d.  Nov. 11, 1876  died of typhoid
9.  Andrew  b.  June 13, 1870. This is one that is driving me crazy......I know he emigrated to Canada.  He and my grandfather built two hotels in Merritt, BC, and then he seems to have disappeared.
10.  Alexander  b. May 27, 1872  d.  Sept. 19, 1930  (my grandfather).  Married Christina Snaddon--Hunter--Stansbury...take your pick.  Children:  John, Henry Stansbury, James Alexander, (my father)  Christina, Mary Jane, and William Daniel Stansbury.

I've checked into the 1871 census, but can't wait until earlier ones come online.  Stuck until then, I think.

Your reply is greatly appreciated!
Rosemary

[Greydog]

Hello to PBN and Rosemary from sunny South Africa. Thank you for your replies. I was most grateful to hear from the two of you. It seems we may be referring to the same family line. As my father, Kenneth, was born when his father was in his forties and had intermittent contact with his father, he did'nt get down much of his father's family history. John Raymond Hoggan, also known as "Jack" to his family was my father's father. His "Grand Aunt" Eleanor Hoggan as she signs herself in a letter lived in Midlothian Scotland at the end of World War 1 as she refers to life after the War. She mentions that a daughter had emigrated with her family to Yukon territory, Canada. Her son in Scotland was evidently a doctor, as she makes mention of the fact. My father has visited Waterside House in Keir in Scotland. It seems that some of the Hoggans came from Dumfrieshire. I am still trying to identify John Raymond's father. There was mention that he had been killed in Buenos Aires doing work for the British government. Whether this is true or not, I do not Know.
It seems as if John Raymond Hoggan was a regular soldier as he definitely rose to the rank of sergeant in the mounted forces during the Anglo Boer War. I have photo of him in uniform. Apparently, his sister also emigrated to South Africa after the Anglo Boer War. First name not known.
Further information will be appreciated. Any documented information can be sent to: (*)

Kind regards

Roy Hoggan

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