What does it mean?

[jimbohodge]

Hi,

This is not really a lookup request. I have obtained some information from the A2A website and I wondering if anybody can help me to undertsand what it means? Concerning my ancestor, Ralph Summerfield:

1) Records of Society of Friends (Quakers)
constituent MMs: (e.g. p.2) 1704
Market St. & Sewell - Edw Chester, Jn Chester, Jn Robins, Jn Hawkins
"Cranfield etc." Jos. Barber, Dan White
Pulloxhill Tho & Jn Gamble
Clifton, Langford (Langford a separate MM 1708 (p.16)) & Stotfold Jn Samm, Ralph Summerfield
Dunstable: new meetinghouse built & meeting settled, 1712 (p.24) Emergence of Albans MM:-
p.3 agreed that Hemel, Redborn, "Harding" & Albans have their freedom, 1696
P.3 some Friends have "got up" this MM without the rest of the Friends; consideration referred "to the respective MM they have for many years counted themselves belonging to", 1699
p.5 Herts. QM writes as to Albans, Hemel Wood End "joining" to them, 15/10/1702; Joint conference planned for Herts., Beds. & Bucks. (as some of their members in the undertaking); 6 Friends appointed to confer.


2) Lucas Archive
Manor of Clophill with Cainho: (as above ): st. Ralph Skynner;
admission of Mykill; w. of Jn. Ravensden, to
3 ac. arable in the fields of Clophill, and
a pightle of pasture (1 r. );
surr. by Jn. Ravensden by the hands of Thos. Howson
and Ralph Sumerfield, to Mykill for life, then
to Anne Ravensden, dau. of elder bro.;
rent p.a. 18d.; fine not stated.

3)Manor of Clophill & Cainho (as above)
admission of Ric. Reade, sr. to
a cottage in Clophill & pightle adj.;
surr. by Ric. Greene decd. by the hands of Ralph
Deacon and Ralph Summerfield.


Thanks a lot.
I really don't undertsand whats going on in any of these at all.

Thanks
Jim

[bedfordshire boy]

I don't understand what's going on with the 1708 monthly meeting minutes, but I question if it's the same Ralph Summerfield as in the other 2 snippets, which I couldn't find on A2A but which I eventually found on BLARS.

The earlier two, where you didn't quote the dates, were in 1655 and 1658, and appear to be sales of properties where Ralph Summerfield seems to be a trustee or perhaps executor. The "fine" mentioned in the first one you quote is the purchase price.

But with 50 years between the document dates it might be father and son, rather than the same Ralph - and if you check the IGI I think that's what it is.

Regards

David

[jimbohodge]

Thanks for that David.
I have looked through the IGI and also the Clophill Parish Register and I was wondering if I may ask you another question concerning this?

- In 1657 the Clophill Registers have a Birth record of a Thomas Summerfield, Son of Ralph Summerfield, Not baptized.
In 1659 there is a Death of a Ralph, son of Ralph Summerfield.
In 1663 there is a Birth of Ralph, son of Ralph Summerfield
In 1664 there is a Death of a Ralph Summerfield.

Thats all the records there ever are for him, and none whatsoever for his brother Robert Summerfield.
As like one that i showed you, I have found many references to a Ralph and a Robert Summerfield being Quakers (First one in 1663, and going right up to the 1704 one.)

So, why would some of their records have been done in an Anglican church? Or could it have been that they only 'converted' to Quakerism in about 1663?
I ask because even the few records I do have from the Clophill Registers do not look complete to me (Would usually be more children, no marriage, no baptizm??)

Thanks
Jim

[bedfordshire boy]

I have seen another parish where there is a note in the register listing births of children of dissenters who were not baptised, at least not in the established church. I imagine that this may well have been what happened at Clophill - Ralph senior seems to have been a dissenter in 1657, as Thomas wasn't baptised. I don't think he was flip-flopping backwards and forwards between religions.

This noting of children born in the parish seems to have been pretty ad hoc, and may have been dependent on who the vicar was, how conscientious he was, and whether he was even aware of births of dissenters - as the other one I've seen was a single list, it was presumably added at some time after the births, so was more than likely incomplete.

It looks as though Ralph who was a party to the property transactions was the one who died in 1664, and the Ralph born 1663 was the one mentioned in the 1708 Society of Friends monthly minutes.

Regards

David

[Galium]

I have read somewhere - sorry can't find where just now - that parents from dissenting churches would sometimes ask the anglican minister to enter their child's  name and birth date in the parish register, as a way of 'officially' recording the birth.  They would have to pay for this privelege, but before civil registration it was a way of proving someone's age if it should ever become necessary to do so.

[jimbohodge]

Interesting, So it seems that Ralph may have had more children, they were just not recorded?
Hopefully the Quakers would have recorded them themselves, even at this early date?

Jim

[bedfordshire boy]

Only one way to find out the answer to both questions: check out LDS Film no 441488 which has records commencing 1650

David

[madpants]

Just a note but I think the MM is Monthly Meeting