Does anyone know anything about Helen BICKFORD ? (or Robert Henry GARDENER)-END!

[jeenie]

Hi, Trish, and Cazay.   I have been flat out for a few hours looking further, and I am hurrying this to advise what I have found, so it will be a bit disjointed ! 

(First, you are right, Trish, so far for this exercise we have "purchased" 11 or 12 records from Victoria on Line, and 3 SA certificates.  )   This pm I have :

Anne married 30May1859 age 18 born Comartin Devonshire, Residence Yandoit [Vic], father John's occupation Miner.

Elizabeth married 1Dec1859 age 21 born ?glpacome? Devonshire, Residence Yandoit, father John's occupation Engineer.

Maria died 15Dec1886 age 78, born Penzance Cornwall, married at 23 to Jonathan BICKFORD, children [all difficult to read] William 53 Gertrude deceased Grace 48 Elizabeth 45 Annie 43 Ellen 42 Emond? 40 Harriet 38 Mary 33.  [Also both her Parents' names are recorded !  ]

I previously found in FreeBDM Grace Elizabeth Gertrude and Ann all born in Barnstable, so I "assumed" all of the same family - dangerous !   

[Helen's son Frederick was born 1865 in Yandoit !!  We are indeed "lucky" that Frederick died after 2 days, when his father registered both the birth and death at the same time.  Since he did not register his daughter's birth the next year, I am quite sure he would not have registered his son's, without the details on which we would have got nowhere !]

I also thought I had, and paid for, a marriage for William, but wrong person ! 

However, there is an 1885 death record for a William BICKFORD age 51 in Silverton NSW.  If the same person, maybe the family did not know he was dead when his mother died.  Also, a William BICKFORD witnessed Grace' marriage. 

Maybe the family moved after Annie's birth to an area not yet entered to FreeBDM, where Ellen/Helen was born, and where possibly Gertrude died; or possibly Gertrude died before as Cazay suggested.  Gertude's dying before emigration would explain the count of children.

Also, William would have been about 20 when they went to Melbourne, so probably not included in the count of children.  Also, I can't find a Death for any relevant John BICKFORD, in SA or Vic, or NSW.  [Completely hypothetically, if for whatever reason he was not around when the family went to Melbourne, the passengers may have been recorded as "Mr Bickford", and "Mrs Bickford and 7 children".     Maybe  but more probably I guess John's name was (also) illegible, and incorrectly recorded.    ]

This adds a little interest 

Ever since I have heard of his name, trying to find details has been "interesting".   

It is indeed exciting to finally make the breakthrough, no longer expected, and we shall definitely continue to subscribe to RootsChat !   

Thanks again,

Jeenie.   

[jeenie]

After several hours, I have finally got a bit further.   

Emond wasn't Emond after all - "he" was Emma !   

Emma married "On a Monday 11th July 1864 in the dwelling house of the Presbyterian [illegible]" age 18 born "Kapunda in Adelaide Victoria"  Residence Moolart [I think - the same place as Maria died], father John's occupation Carpenter.  The document contains some additional statements :

"I do hereby declare that I & my wife are Members of the Church of England Married in the place above stated  X  James Lock his mark."

"We, the mother & oldest brother of the Bride above stated, do hereby consent to her marrying Mr. James Lock stated - Witness our hands to this, and the other marriage documents.  (signed)  Maria Bickford  William Bickford"

"The Marriage was solemnized According to The forms of the Presbyterian Church of Victoria."  and Witnessed by Maria Bickford and William Bickford.

Why was it necessary for consent to be given, when it wasn't for the other daughters ?  Had the Law changed ?  And why wasn't father John involved ? 

I still can't find any record of his death in SA, Vic, or NSW. 

Anyway, we also now have 6 births in England, and probably 1 death, 5 children emigrating, 3 born in SA, and 7 children going to Victoria (William now too old to be a child).   

Jeenie.   

[Cazay]

Looks like you have been really busy Jeenie.........and all the certificates giving you lots of information too, especially Maria's death.  If Ellen's age is correct her birth year must be around 1844/45   

The death for William in Silverton probably does not have any parents names as his age has been given.  He could have followed his father as a miner perhaps.

As Trish mentioned there could have been a chance that William did not come to Australia and I did find a William Bickford b 1836 in 1851 census but with mother, Grace (all born Menheniot Liskeard Cornwall)   Similar names in this family also to John and Maria's children. (Maybe keep this in mind for later connections).

John may have been deceased by the time that his daughters married, hence witnesses - William and Maria.  The Presbyterian Church may have been stricter on underage persons requiring parental permission but as far as I know if you were under 21 you needed permission.

I suppose that you have tried the contact email on firstfamilies, it is quite a few years old now like many of them and may be unresponsive 

Are you a member of GenesReunited as someone has Grace Bickford b1838?

Cazay

[jeenie]

To all kind people, Rootschatters, a final  update  ??

Sisters Emma and Mary BICKFORD were living in Moolort when they married in 1864 & 1870 as was their mother Maria when she died in 1886.  Moolort is/was a gold mining town, like Forest Creek.  Anne & Elizabeth were resident in Yandoit when they both married in 1859.  Anne's husband was a miner, as was Mary's father-in-Law, and Emma's husband is recorded as a Goldminer.  On the birth of his son in 1865 (with "Hellen" BICKFORD) in Yandoit, Robert Henry GARDENER stated his age as 41, and occupation as Miner.  Father John BICKFORD was recorded as a Mine Carpenter in England, and apparently the family went to Victoria in 1853, when the gold rush was in full swing; and Grace was living in Forest Creek (Place of Death) when she married in early 1854.  Prior to going to Vic, the family immigrated to SA in 1847 on the David Malcolm.  It is historical fact that many sailors "paid off" their ships during the goldrush.  We have just found that a Robert GARDENER was a Seaman on the David Malcolm in 1849.  (Also a William BICKFORD was a Witness when Grace married at age 16, and Emma at "18" [16?], if he was the same person who died in 1885 in Silverton NSW, a mining town.)      So I guess we have achieved all that we could have hoped for ! including Maria's parents of Samuel ROWE and Ann nee PETERS - and which we could not have done without your help !  [but a pity eg not the death of John    and etc - particularly if in Victoria.]   

But we can not keep this going for ever, so thank you all again, 
Jeenie.   

[jeenie]

To Cazay and Trish etc !

I hope you didn't think I was too abrupt in my last message  - but I could not in all conscience ask, or expect, you to continue your wonderful help !   

Jeenie   

[trish251]

Hello Jeenie

Not at all 

Sometimes it is easier to have a thread concentrate on a small part of a family - so feel free to close any thread as you will. You can always come back later with more questions - but you seem to have resolved much of this with your own work   

Trish

[jeenie]

We have finally found the birth records for Ellen (not Hellen) Bickford 24 April 1845 in Linkinhorne Cornwall.     (Although her father has still gone missing !     )

Thank you all, and particularly Cazay and Trish very much !   

[trish251]

Ellen & Helen are always very interchangeable (as I found from a ggg of my husbands) - so pleased you found her, no doubt you will eventually find father as well 

regards
Trish

[Rhondda]

Hello Jeenie if you are still out there!
I happened upon your question & recognised a name.  My husband is a descendent of John Hurst MEREDITH.  I have Ellen Bickford listed in his tree:

John Bickford b1804 Stratton, Cornwall  married in 1831 tin Penzance to
Maria Rowe b1808 Penzance Cornwall.
children:
Grace Bickford b1838 at Combe Martin, Nth Devon
Elizabeth Bickford b1839  Combe Martin
Gertrude Bickford b1841 Combe Martin
Anne Bickford b1843 Combe Martin
Ellen Bickford b 1845 Combe Martin
1847 - John Bickford & wife & 5 children arrive at Port Adelaide on 26 Jan
More children:
Emma Bickford b 1847 at Kapunda, South Australia
Harriet Bickford b 1848 in Adelaide, SA
Mary Bickford b 1851 Adelaide, SA  (wow...all girls!)
C1852 BICKFORD Family move to Mt Alexander goldfields, Forrest Creek
1854 Grace Bickford Married John Hurst Meredith in Castlemaine, Vic

You may by now already have this information. If not, I hope this helps.  I don's seem to have any further information on Ellen.  Several of her sisters lived in the same area inVic but her name is not listed.
Regards