Author Topic: Robert McLelland (or McClelland) cant find him pre-1861  (Read 12735 times)

Offline kiwijulia

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Re: Robert McLelland (or McClelland) cant find him pre-1861
« Reply #27 on: Thursday 03 May 07 21:43 BST (UK) »
OK - found 1851 census where John is obviously away because Agnes is listed as:
Glenluce 
County: Wigtownshire 
Address: Main Street 
Occupation: Shremaker's Wife 

The plot thickens.
Brooks (Dundee. Scotland)
Collins (Sussex, England)
Cunningham (Kent and Sussex, England)
Jamieson (Dundee, Scotland)
Low (Perthshire, Scotland)
McKames and McKinnes
McLelland (Wigstownshire, Scotland)(Shropshire, England)
Parks (Sussex, England)
Reeves (Kent and Sussex, England)
Sim (Scotland)
Still (Scotland)
Whitby (England and Scotland)

Offline Gadget

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Re: Robert McLelland (or McClelland) cant find him pre-1861
« Reply #28 on: Thursday 03 May 07 21:54 BST (UK) »
It might not be the right family  :-\  or Robert was making up the jobs and/or father  :(

This is a puzzle.

Gadget
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Offline Ecneps

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Re: Robert McLelland (or McClelland) cant find him pre-1861
« Reply #29 on: Thursday 03 May 07 22:40 BST (UK) »
His occupation in 1861 is listed as "male catcher"

Excuse me chipping in again, but this is surely more likely to be Mole Catcher (I've had one of them in my family)

Barbara
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Re: Robert McLelland (or McClelland) cant find him pre-1861
« Reply #30 on: Thursday 03 May 07 22:44 BST (UK) »
I've not heard of that being on the census before - sometimes other euphemisms are used  :D :D :D

Think Barbara is correct  :)

Gadget
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Offline JAP

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Re: Robert McLelland (or McClelland) cant find him pre-1861
« Reply #31 on: Friday 04 May 07 09:05 BST (UK) »
Hi Julia,

If I understand this thread correctly, the facts (I've put questions where the info doesn't seem to be on the thread) you seem to have are:

*1841 Worfield, Shropshire: Robert MCLELLAND, 20 (remember, ages were rounded down in 1841), tailor, born Scotland

*1842 Bridgnorth, Shropshire: Robert MCLELLAND (age, occupation?) - father John MCLELLAND, currier - married Mary LAYE.

*1848 Wellington, Shropshire: Robert LELLAND (age, occupation?) - father John LELLAND, victualler - married Maria NOCK.

*1851 Madely, Shropshire: Robert MCLLEAND(?), 30, tailor, born Wigtown Scotland, is with wife Maria, son Robert aged 6 b Bridgnorth (presumably a son he had with his first wife - there is an appropriate birth, Dec qtr, 1844), children John 2 and Betsey 4m both born Madeley (presumably children with Maria) and 2 step-children from Maria's first marriage.

*1861 (place?): Robert MC LELLAND, 42, tailor, born Wigtown Scotland, is with wife Maria, children Robert 16, John 11, Elizabeth 10, William 8, Rebecca 6 and a step-son.

*1871?

*1881 Madely, Shropshire: Robert MCLELLAND, 62, born Scotland, tailor, married (nobody with him),

I don't find the change of occupation of Robert's father - currier in 1842, victualler in 1848 - a concern.  Remember, this was a time when horses were the normal means of transport.  So, when one stopped at an Inn, the first concern was to look after the horses (riding horses or carriage horses).  John may well have looked after horses at an Inn in 1842, then taken over running the Inn by 1848.  The old occupation "ostler" (someone who looks after horses at an inn) derives from "hostler" (the host of an inn or hostelry - who possibly did both jobs if it were a small inn).

The question is, can you work back from the known to find out more about Robert's origins in Wigtownshire, Scotland?  I think it would be very unsafe to do so unless you can find more information to help pinpoint exactly where he was born and the name of his mother.  His father's name and occupation(s) are known from Robert's marriage certificates but nothing more.  He doesn't seem to have followed Scottish naming traditions for his children (otherwise his first son would have been named John).  But if he did and that was just one glitch (given that the second son is named John), one would expect the first daughter (Elizabeth) to be the name of Maria's mother, the next son (William) to be the name of Maria's father (which we know it is from the marriage certificate), and the second daughter (Rebecca) to be the name of Robert's mother (unless, of course, his mother was Elizabeth which had already been used ...).

Pre-1855 (when statutory registration began in Scotland) many many children were not baptized, or were baptized in churches the records of which have not survived and/or have not been indexed.  So pre-1855 records in the IGI and on ScotlandsPeople are a very incomplete record.  There may well be no record to be found of Robert's birth/baptism.

As Robert was already in Shropshire by 1841, his parents might also have moved to England or might have died - one can't assume that they will be in the 1841 census in either England or Scotland.  But, if they are, I'd be looking for an occupation like currier or victualler for John.

Some other possible - but much more difficult - lines of enquiry which might reveal further clues could be whether there was a death notice for Robert in a local newspaper, or a gravestone with a monumental inscriptions, or a will ...

Best of luck,

JAP

Offline kiwijulia

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Re: Robert McLelland (or McClelland) cant find him pre-1861
« Reply #32 on: Friday 11 May 07 12:35 BST (UK) »
Your discussion of the change in occupation makes a lot of sense when you put it that way. Hmmm

To clarify for you JAP..

*1861 (place?): Robert MC LELLAND, 42, tailor, born Wigtown Scotland, is with wife Maria, children Robert 16, John 11, Elizabeth 10, William 8, Rebecca 6 and a step-son.
This is Madeley, Shropshire too..

*1871? Madeley, Shropshire also with all the relevant family and occupation of Tailor

*1881 Madely, Shropshire: Robert MCLELLAND, 62, born Scotland, tailor, married (nobody with him),


and yes, his first son must have been with his first wife (I hadn't noticed this - too busy looking for his Granddad - thanks).

We don't know Maria Nock's mothers name - though  I did find a christening for a Maria Nock to father William Nock and mother Susanna  14 Apr 1816 on IGI for Shifnal, Shropshire which is where she was born, married and died - but this is unconfirmed by any other info or a birth cert because she was born pre 1837. I have the Index details for her death - would this give any more clues if I ordered a copy? Or Roberts if I can find a reference for it?

All the info about Scot's naming conventions was new to me - very interesting. I had heard of naming conventions but hadn't found out what they were - is there somewhere where it lays it out simply?

So far I have been looking for John McLellands and trying to find someone with a residence in an Inn or other similar evidence- I figure this is the best I can do on the internet.

If you can suggest anything else I should be looking for let me know.
Julia





Brooks (Dundee. Scotland)
Collins (Sussex, England)
Cunningham (Kent and Sussex, England)
Jamieson (Dundee, Scotland)
Low (Perthshire, Scotland)
McKames and McKinnes
McLelland (Wigstownshire, Scotland)(Shropshire, England)
Parks (Sussex, England)
Reeves (Kent and Sussex, England)
Sim (Scotland)
Still (Scotland)
Whitby (England and Scotland)