inverchaolin

[sonofcam]

Danielle,
I recall you mentioned that you had some Brown connections?

To all readers of the list, may I solicit details of your Brown (or Broun) connections predominantly in Inverchaolain but extending into Dunoon & Kilmun, Kilmodan, Rothesay and Greenock where a connection can be shown.
I am trying to make some sense of where all the families fit together based on baptisms and marriages from ScotlandsPeople - unfortunately no burials appear to exist before 1855 and I am unaware of any useful MIs.
Central to my search are the links to the previous surname of McGilmichal (and its derivatives Gilmichael, McMichael, McMichal, Michael, Michal, Michel - all represented in Inverchaolain and/or D&K and sometimes with more than one variant in one family)

Any assistance will be appreciated - also if you have a Brown query, ask as I am starting to collect quite a few baptism printouts from ScotlandsPeople.

Regards,

David Bailey
Brisbane AUS

[sonofthom]

David, my great x2 grandfather was Daniel Brown, who was born in 1811 in Point of Towart, which is south of Dunoon. His father was John Brown from Stronsaule (not sure when born) who married Margaret Harkness in 1806. she was the illegitimate daughter of Adam Harkness of Glen Lean and Ann (looks like) McKellor and was born in 1784; her father was Duncan (again looks like) McKellor. John Brown's father was also John Brown, but I have no further info on him. I don't have any other connections but all of these people are in the Dunoon/Inverchaolain area and so it would be great if you can shed any further light on the Brown and related lines in this area.
Alex.

[lomond]

I have a John Brown who married Jane Leitch. He was from the Dunoon/Inverchaolin area.  His children all appear to have been born in Kilmun. I also have a John Munn who married Mary Leitch from this area also. John lived a Knockdow at the time of his marriage to Mary at Inverchaolin. The Leitch Family were from Kilmodan although on of the sons was Gamekeeper at Castle Toward.  Helen

[sonofthom]

Do you know when your John Brown was born? A quick check has shown that he married Jane Leitch on 16 January 1833.  My great x2 grandfather Daniel Brown had a brother John born on 15 March 1809 in Dunoon and Kilmun, probably at point of Towart (I haven't accessed the certificate).  Could he be the father of your John Brown?  Alex.

[sonofcam]

Helen,
Based on the naming pattern of his children and the age on his 1897 death certificate, your John Brown appears to be the John baptised at Dunoon and Kilmun 23 April 1806 to Donald Brown, cottar in Ardnanslaite(?), and Mary Kennedy.
This couple baptised a number of children both in Dunoon and Inverchaolain so the family obviously moved around quite a bit - also partially explains why John may have married in Inverchaolain rather than Dunoon.
Your Jane Leitch from her 1895 death certificate was the daughter of Andrew Leitch from Kilmodan (Glendaruel) and the marriage to John is recorded both in Kilmodan and Inverchaolain som days apart. This double ceremony is not all that unusual for the time where the two participants came from different parishes.
Regards,
David Bailey

[sonofthom]

I need to correct posts I have made here regarding my greatx2 grandfather Daniel Brown. His place of birth was actually Stronsaule (usually now spelled without the "e") on 3rd April 1811. His parents were John Brown and Margaret Harkness. Although he is referred to as Daniel in all documents the one exception is the parish record of his birth which lists him as Donald; apparently Donald and Daniel were interchangeable names at this time.

The Daniel that I had previously thought to be my relative was also born to a John Brown and his mother was also Margaret. It is quite a coincidence that the Dunoon area had two such similar records within two months of each other and is a classic example of how easy it is to jump to the wrong conclusion.

Full acknowledgement is due to sonofcam, who also posts on this board, for drawing this to my attention.

[lomond]

John Brown died 1897 at the age of 92 at Finnarmore. His death cert. does not give his parents names (the info given by grand-daughter Lizzie. I have only found info on two of the children Adam Duncan died 29 Dec 1872 age 18 (the earlier Duncan must have died young) and Jean/Jane married her cousin Colin Fletcher son of Colin Fletcher and Elizabeth Leitch. One of the reasons I was on this site was to find the parents of John Munn. His death cert. gives his mother's maiden name as Carmichael. I came across a marriage record for an  Ann Michael to a James Munn and one for an Ann Brown with the marriage dates close togerther on in Kilmodan and one in Inverchaolin.  I thought perhaps the 2 Ann's could be the same person but each record is clear as Michael and Brown. The children of Ann Brown and James Munn would match up with the approximate age of my John. I have info no the Leitch Family Alexander Leitch was ground officer in Kilmodan. He was married to a Mary Weir/McNuir (another one of those name changes). Thanks for the information on John Brown. Helen

[lomond]

forgot to add to my note, John gives his birthplace as Dunoon on the census and one time as Kilmun. His children were Donald, Alexander, John, Duncan, Janet, Mary, Agnes, Adam Duncan, and Jean/Jane. Agnes was the mother of Lizzie who was the informant on John Brown's death cert. Most of t he childfren were born in Kilmun. I once lived in Kilmun before I came to the USA of course that was before I started doing my genealogy. Helen

[sonofcam]

John Brown died 1897 at the age of 92 at Finnarmore. His death cert. does not give his parents names (the info given by grand-daughter Lizzie. I have only found info on two of the children Adam Duncan died 29 Dec 1872 age 18 (the earlier Duncan must have died young) and Jean/Jane married her cousin Colin Fletcher son of Colin Fletcher and Elizabeth Leitch. One of the reasons I was on this site was to find the parents of John Munn. His death cert. gives his mother's maiden name as Carmichael. I came across a marriage record for an  Ann Michael to a James Munn and one for an Ann Brown with the marriage dates close together on in Kilmodan and one in Inverchaolin.  I thought perhaps the 2 Ann's could be the same person but each record is clear as Michael and Brown. The children of Ann Brown and James Munn would match up with the approximate age of my John. I have info no the Leitch Family Alexander Leitch was ground officer in Kilmodan. He was married to a Mary Weir/McNuir (another one of those name changes). Thanks for the information on John Brown. Helen

Helen,
I found your reference to the Ann Michael / Ann Brown marriages very intersting - thank you.
Have you sighted the actual register entries as they make it reasonably certain that the two events are linked?
In Inverchaolain James Munn of Glendaruele registered his intention to marry Ann Brown on 19 June 1789 and they were married on 24 June in Inverchaolain.
In Kilmodan (Glendaruele) the registration of intention for James Mun(n) and Ann Michael of Inverchaolain was one of the two for19 June and the reference goes on to state that this couple were later married in Inverchaolain.
I have taken this as further supporting evidence of the name change from Michal (and related variants) to Brown and by extension as an indication that efforts may have been advisable in Inverchaolain (Lamont territory) to distance oneself from the Michal connection that may not have been necessary in Kilmodan (nominally Campbell territory!)
Regarding James Munn of Kilmodan, his children (all baptised in Inverchaolain) in order appear to have been Niell 1790, Archibald 1792, Isobell 1796, John 1799 (born at Tighnuilt just south of Inverchaolain township) Mary 1801 and Donald 1804.
These names in turn make it quite probable that James can be identified with the James baptised in Kilmodan 14 October 1764 to Archibald Munn and Isabell NcLugas.
Unfortunately I have been unable yet to come up with any supportable identification of a Ann Michael / Brown born probably about 1770.
This all highlights the difficulties of making clear cut deductions of ancestry in Scotland due to arbitrary name changes, damage to registers, etc and we are obliged to go with probabilities and a judicious application of Occam's razor!
Considering the Carmichael reference. it does not appear to have been a name much found in the area but it is possibly a factor of a poorly remembered name by the grand-daughter probably long after the event. It is more credible because I have struck something similar with another contact with a similar memory of an ancestor's name as Carmichael or something like it. I am happy enough that Gilmichal and Carmichael could easily be confused.
Hopefully this may be of some use to you.
Regards,
David