Author Topic: CARVER Hitchin  (Read 11352 times)

Offline Chris Carver

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Re: CARVER Hitchin
« Reply #27 on: Thursday 11 September 08 11:29 BST (UK) »
Hi Jan,

Thanks, I did know about them and asked the Herts Archives for a quote to retrieve them.  I received an order form and quote for £14 the day before I left to go on holiday, so will order them once I get back unless I decide to wait until my Bedford research trip in Jan - 2 nights in a Travelodge at £9 per night, too good an offer to pass up!

Chris
London - Carver Philbedge<br />Sheffield - Carver Lindley Lockey Denton Naylor Barnes Wright Fawkes Bradshaw White Allen<br />Durham - Lockey<br />Wales - Philbedge<br />Beds - Carver<br />South Africa - van der Sandt, Heydenrych<br />Somerset - House Hembery Marshall Parsons Bell Dare Neath Gray

Offline janan

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Re: CARVER Hitchin
« Reply #28 on: Thursday 11 September 08 21:59 BST (UK) »
Hi Chris
£14 seems a lot and if they are anything like an apprenticeship record I have they won't include anymore info. However it is nice to see the original and  I probably couldn't resist.
Have a good holiday
Jan ;)
ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge

Offline Chris Carver

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Re: CARVER Hitchin
« Reply #29 on: Monday 02 February 09 11:55 GMT (UK) »
Hi Jan,

As mentioned on the Carver Ramblings thread, I spent a day at Hertford last week.  I was trying to find the connection between Samuel Carver of Bowles and Carver Printsellers of London and Samuel Carver of Southill apprenticed to Edward Watts of Hitchin.  I was fairly certain that Samuel jnr was a son from Samuel senior's first marriage to Margaret Walker.  While I have not found absolute proof, mainly because the Southill Carvers were strong non conformists and therefore no baptisms found, I have found a lot of circumstantial evidence.

First the timeline:

1744 - Samuel Thomas Carver of Southill apprenticed to Edward Watts, wheelwright of Hitchin in 1744  (SOG apprentices)  Query was this one or two people, no sign found of a Thomas Carver in Hitchin

1749 - Edward watts living in Bull Street Corner (Poor Rate Assessments)

8 Apr 1752  Carrington Bowles (founder of print company) m Ann Field Hitchin St Mary

10 Oct 1754 - Samuel Carver m Margaret Walker St Ippolytes

1754 - 1756 - Sam Carver resident in Bull Street Corner, "disappears" until 1764, but Charles Bowles "appears" in same location until death, did he own property and was he paying rates instead of Sam? (Poor Rate Assessments)

1756 - Sam Carver jnr born (from obituary)

25 Oct 1758 - Margaret Carver buried St Ippolytes

15 Apr 1759 - Sam Carver m Mary Prior Hitchin St Mary

1760-1765 - 4 Children born

19 Feb 1763 - Charles Bowles gentleman buried Hitchin St Mary

1764-1767 - Sam Carver reappears resident in Tiled House Street, Hitchin.  No Bowles in Bull Street Corner - was it sold?

25 Feb 1767 - Sam Carver buried Hitchin St Mary

Sep 1767 - Widow Carver and 3,2 paid various sums in poor relief (Overseers accounts)

25 Mar 1768 - Thomas, Mary, John, Elizabeth carver baptised Hitchin St Mary

Sep 1769 - Widow Carver in Workhouse

29 Dec 1773 - Thomas Carver apprenticed to James Alldred, Silk Weaver, of Bethnal Green, Middlesex for the sum of £5 paid by Mr John Midwinter Treasurer of Mr Kemp's Publick Charity of Hitchin

7 Dec 1777 - Mary Carver buried Hitchin St Mary

25 Mar 1778 - John Carver apprenticed to William Estwick, a Weaver, for a sum of £5 paid by John Midwinter Treasurer of Mr Joseph Kemp's Publick Charity in Hitchin.

Sam jnr eventually went into partnership with Henry Carrington Bowles, son of Henry Bowles.

Conclusions: 

The Bowles link is there.

4 children baptised after Samuel senior's death, possibly forced in order to continue poor relief.  By this time Samuel junior had possibly gone to London to work for Henry Bowles, but initially after death of father poor relief shows Mary and 3 boys, 2 girls, perhaps the only evidence there was an extra child?

On Henry Bowle's marriage settlement certificate he is described as a citizen of London and his possible brother is a Joiner of London.  Sam jnr eventually became a member of the Worshipful Company of Joiners.


What do you think?

Chris
London - Carver Philbedge<br />Sheffield - Carver Lindley Lockey Denton Naylor Barnes Wright Fawkes Bradshaw White Allen<br />Durham - Lockey<br />Wales - Philbedge<br />Beds - Carver<br />South Africa - van der Sandt, Heydenrych<br />Somerset - House Hembery Marshall Parsons Bell Dare Neath Gray

Offline janan

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Re: CARVER Hitchin
« Reply #30 on: Monday 02 February 09 21:32 GMT (UK) »
Wow :D

A good days work all that is lacking is a baptism for Samuel jnr otherwise it is all hanging together nicely. I suppose he could have been baptised as an adult or a Baptist  (which would also have been as an adult wouldn't it??)
Jan ;)
ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge


Offline Chris Carver

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Re: CARVER Hitchin
« Reply #31 on: Thursday 01 October 09 08:42 BST (UK) »
Hi Jan

Cracked it!  Visited LMA yesterday where I had ordered the apprenticeship records of the Joiners Company:

May 1770  Samuel Carver son of Samuel Carver late of Hitchin in the county of Hertfordshire wheelwright deceased to Carrington Bowles Joiner and Freeman of London for 7 years.

This is a bit of a paraphrase, if anyone would like a copy of the original entry, I will send via email.

Back there again this morning and may visit SOG as well.

Chris
London - Carver Philbedge<br />Sheffield - Carver Lindley Lockey Denton Naylor Barnes Wright Fawkes Bradshaw White Allen<br />Durham - Lockey<br />Wales - Philbedge<br />Beds - Carver<br />South Africa - van der Sandt, Heydenrych<br />Somerset - House Hembery Marshall Parsons Bell Dare Neath Gray

Offline janan

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Re: CARVER Hitchin
« Reply #32 on: Thursday 01 October 09 09:01 BST (UK) »
That's great Chris ;D

Jan ;)
ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge