john hall - clackmannan

[patvp1]

Hi Golfer -
Death certificate for
Margaret Hall 12 Mar 1868.

Widower of John Hall Coal (not sure cannot decipher)
Age 72
Parents - Thomas McNaughton Gardener deceased
Anne McNaughton m.s. (could be Smith)  deceased
Death of old age no regular medical check.
Informant  John Hall ,son present

GRO 466/00 0017

Found a marriage for the couple 26 Mar 1820 at Clackmannan
GRO 466/0070 0004
Now the hard part -
According to GRO children for this marriage are
Ann 3 Apr 1823, James McNaughton Hall 16 Jan 1839, Malcolm 13 Mar 1836, Thomas 24 Aug 1820, I cannot find Francis, Robert Bruce nor John, maybe somehow or other they were not registered.
If I can help any more let me know on ^(*)
regards Pat



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[patvp1]

Golfer - also forgot to add Thomas Hall and Jean Malcolm also had another three children
Margaret 1807, Francis 1810, William 1813.

Cheers Pat

[golfer]

Hi Pat. I wish your info on Mgt Hall's (McNaughton) death 1868 and marriage to John Hall 1820 was indeed MY John and Margaret. However, verification is still lacking. As you can attest to through your own research there are many John and Margaret Hall's and Francis Hall's in and about Clackmannan. Just the fact that Thomas Hall/Jean Malcom had 3 sons (Thomas, James, John) who have all been put forward as my Francis Hall's father has made my research very frustrating. Francis' death in Canada identifies his father's name as JOHN and the 1841 Clackmannan census lists him in John/Margaret's household (b. 1829). Yet another Francis (b. abt 1829) appears in Christian Hall's (Moir) household in the 1841 Tillicoultry census and still another recording has him c. 16 Oct 1830 to parents James Hall/Christian Moir. Whew! I believe but w/o verification that Francis Hall's father is John Hall b. 1797 and his mother is Margaret Thomson b. 1795 Kinnoul, Perth. As to your claim that Thomas Hall/Christian Moir had two separate sons named Edward is still open for debate. I feel that there was only one son BORN 22 Jun 1823 and that his CHRISTENING date occurred later (5 Feb 1828). Cheers, Golfer.

[patvp1]

Hi Golfer Phew is right - o.k.
There were two Edward Hall's
22/06/1823 Thomas Hall Christian Moir GRO Data 466/0060 0055.
05/02/1828 ..same parents GRO 466/0060 0119

Probably the first Edward died and they re-used the name which was quite common on Scottish families.

The only way I can help with Francis is to copy these facts out they are all taken from Scotland's People government records, I do have all the births for Hall's in Clack's printed out as have to refer time and time again so it made it much easier.

10/7/1836 Robert Hall and Jane Simpson
21/5/1854 John Hall and Jane Chalmers
20/3/1720 John Hall and Agnes Drysdale
8/4/1762 Francis Hall - Bessie Hall
15/7/1781 Robert Hall - Katharine Higgins
10/11/1782 John Hall - Agnes Finlyson
16/4/1786 Thomas Hall - Mary Miller
23/3/1788 Francis Hall - Isobel Morris
13/12/1792 James Hall - Jean Russell
8/9/1799 William Hall - Mary Duncan
11/5/1810 Thomas Hall - Jean Malcolm
19/9/1813 Francis Hall - Christian Christie
20/9/1817 James Hall - Janet Dow
20/2/1824 John Hall - Margaret McArthure
13/11/1824 Francis Hall - gnes Muir
16/10/1830 James Hall - Christian Moir
17/1/1849 William Hall - Jean McLaren

Can provide the GRO Data number if required so you can apply for certificate.

Thomas and Jean Malcolm had nine children in all
1805 Elizabeth and James (twins)
1810 Francis, 1799 Janet, 1802 Jean, 1797 John, 1807 Margaret, 1795 Thomas, 1813 William

That is according to GRO'S usually I check with both IGI and then GRO and compare, and am finding that IGI records are inclined to be a bit ïffy...

Hope this helps any queries let me know...Pat

[patvp1]

Hi Golfer - talking about ïffy"decided to check original entry for Francis 1830 which shows on the GRO index as James Hall and Christian Moir..thank god I did..as handwritten record shows father as Thomas Hall someone made a boo-boo..well thats sorted me out how about you..Pat

[patvp1]

Hi Ray - because of that info was able to track them down in 1851 Christian Moir had reverted to her maiden name and they are in Fife.
Christian Moir age 55 birth year abt 1796 born Clackmannan
civil parish - Carnock.  Town - Forth Iron Works. County - Fife.
Address - 35 Blair Row
Others
Francis Hall Clackmannan Age 26 Son
Janet Hall Coalsnaughton Dau Age 1
William Meikljohn Clackmannan Nephew


Cheers Pat

[golfer]

Hi Pat. Thanx very much for your clarification re: Edward. I have amended my notes. AND thank you so very much for solving the mystery as to who my Francis' parents were or should I say were not, LOL. So, it leans heavily favoured that his father was JOHN with a birth 1829 whereas Thomas/Christian's Francis appears to have been born more like 1825.  My notes show that in 1851 census Christian Moir b. abt 1796 Clackmannan (Widow), son Francis Hall b. 1825 Town Forth Iron Works, Fife and dtr Janet Hall b. abt 1840. Your preceeding posting had her age being 1 vice 11 (typographical error, LOL). My next step is to cfm John's wife Margaret's maiden name and death. I hold that her surname was Thomson b. 1795 Kinnoul, Perth f. Robert Thomson, m. Euphran Carr. I also suspect that Francis' brother John was born abt 1828 and he married Jane Chalmers and his other brother Robert Bruce b. 1833 relocated to Sunderland, Durham, England and m. Sarah Hood. Prior to coming to Canada in 1854 Francis appears in 1851 census Shotts, Salsburgh, Lanarkshire lodging w/Thomas and Agnes Marshall. He died 18 May 1910. Bottom line Pat is your Edward and my Francis were 1st cousins. Cheers!

[patvp1]

Hi Ray - Thank goodness that's cleared up  well sort of
If I were you would be looking for a marriage cert on Scotland People and see what you come up with.
Just been typing up a thumbnail sketch for my second cousin, seems very short for all the work that has gone into it..ah well have got the Hall's back to 1655..doubt I can do any better than that.  Any help wanted don't hesitate.
Regards Pat