Was my grandfather in the Machine Gun Guards?

[atom12]

Is not the second picture also Guards Machine Gun Bn??

They appear to have the requisite shoulder titles...and it is either the bn signals or perhaps the signallers course he went on to get qualified??

Got to agree  with you Scrimnet on the second photo. You can see the Aldis lamps and the signal flag that they used to send morse.

John -  On the MIC, there is a William D Reffell No: 86965 MGC,
and also a Charles E Reffell No: 13086 Coldstream Guards.  The latter may be a possibility with the photos showing the unit  to be the Guards Machine Gun Battalion, unless the names mentioned are all wrong for your relative.

Anne

[neil1821]

Re the photo of him and his Navy cousin, his cap badge is RE on that one.
That photo can't date any earlier than 1918 because of the overseas service chevrons on the right forearm of the naval uniform. So he was presumably RE at the end of the war.

The Naval uniform is that of a Leading Seaman with one good conduct stripe.
His trade badge (right arm) is Leading Torpedoman (I think)

[scrimnet]

Re the photo of him and his Navy cousin, his cap badge is RE on that one.
That photo can't date any earlier than 1918 because of the overseas service chevrons on the right forearm of the naval uniform. So he was presumably RE at the end of the war.

The Naval uniform is that of a Leading Seaman with one good conduct stripe.
His trade badge (right arm) is Leading Torpedoman (I think)

I was about to say that isn't a Northamptons badge!! We dont have a crown!! (see left!)  (I seem to keep looking for references to that Regt!!!)

Now heres a thought...as the 4th bn Guards Machine Gun Regt was disbanded in Feb 1919, and this chaps chit of identity is dated Oct 1919...Perhaps he was re mustered RE as a signaller between these dates???

[harribobs]

  what a superb pictures they are!! 

( and before anyone has a go at me these are my first ideas)

the first pic all his insignia are clear, sigs qualifed guards mgc

but he's wearing collar dogs, now unless the guards had different regs, that's a post 1922 pic, it doesn't look like one cos his SDs aren't

i wouldn't be surprised if the guards cherry picked an RE that wanted to stay in the army

( back under the parapet)

[scrimnet]

what a superb pictures they are!! 

( and before anyone has a go at me these are my first ideas)

the first pic all his insignia are clear, sigs qualifed guards mgc

but he's wearing collar dogs, now unless the guards had different regs, that's a post 1922 pic, it doesn't look like one cos his SDs aren't

i wouldn't be surprised if the guards cherry picked an RE that wanted to stay in the army

( back under the parapet)

INCOMING!!!   

No, not having a go!!!

But, some thoughts?

The last MGG bn was disbanded in Feb 1919, although some returned to the Regts as coy support until 1920.

The 4th Bn was the only infantry bn, as the other 3 were Household Cav.

This chap has his puttees wound as per Inf, not cav so this would place in him the 4th bn.

His AF Z11 marks his discharge as Oct 1919 (partial stamp bottom left)...So there is a gap betwixt Feb and Oct...I don't think they had terminal leave for that length of time in those days!!

His discharge chit states RE on discharge, not MGG...Therefore I suggest that he must have been re mustered as an RE signaller prior to Oct 1919...

Also the shoulder titles state "Machine Gun Guards"...They became this in 1917, but in May 1918 they became the "Guards Machine Gun Regt"

So, could that narrow down the date of the photo???

[harribobs]

what about the collar dogs?, he's wearing them in the pic on his own and all the men in the group photo as as well?

i think we might need a guards specialist to look at these

[scrimnet]

If we can find a Guards Guru that would be useful....pro tempora...

As his discharge stamp states 1919 and there were no Guards Machine Gun Bns after 1919 (except for the company skeletons for one year)...

Collar dogs may have become generalised on SD after 1922, but some Regts certainly wore them....(Hussars for one! - I am frantically searching my books for Guards pics!! )

And if the group pic was taken after 1922, I would expect the NCOS at least to have medal ribbons...I can discern none at all - on anyone!!!

 

[harribobs]

And if the group pic was taken after 1922, I would expect the NCOS at least to have medal ribbons...I can discern none at all - on anyone!!!

good point!

i don't usually suggest another forum but I think a post on the great war forum is in order! 

[scrimnet]

And I'll put it to my oppos on the European WW1 forum...