Was anything special happening in 1871? Lost person Arthur McKinnis

[kiwijulia]

Hi again,

Yes, looked at the original image and it def said Peter (not Arthur).
When I was talking about the possibility of it being mistranscribed I was meaning back in the 1800's - my understanding (rudimenatry tho it is) is that the census forms were left at each household, filled in by the residents and then collected by the "census man" who then transcribed them into the census "book".
So my guess if that back in 1871 the guy committing them to permanent book record might have got it wrong. Family history of bad handwritting? (hee hee) What do you think?

Again I looked the the original birth cert of Henry on SP (totally addicted to the site and spending a small fortune...  ) and it def says Co Cavan - but on the census form there is more than one downward stroke making it look alot more like Carron - and the Co isn't there, which I would have expected to be included if they were referring to a county. I will post pics if you like - is there a quicker way than printing the forms, taking a digital photo of the word and loading it back up again?

I havn't found the death certificates, but am looking - not sure what I'm doing wrong.
I searched Isabella McKinnis with soundex and didn't find any that had the naming variations I have found so far (McKennis, McKarnes, McKemes) or any other name which had the alternative (Maiden) name as Patterson. Want more of a clue before I actually view the image (£££).

Ooooh - I got some inspiration while writing this post and decided to try a M*c*K search and found Arthurs death cert 1902! Sadly he died in a Poor house but it say's he was the widower of Isabella Patterson so I now know she died before that.  It gives his parents names but no location or other clues.

I'll let you know how I get on looking for Isabella now...  I like this game! Jules

[MonicaL]

Jules, I warn you now - the SP bug is instant and terminal..for your wallet  Have fun, one of the best services in the world but totally addictive!


On a couple of your points, although today we receive our census form in the post  not sure about the census forms being left in the household for completion - remember a large number of people would not have been able to read or write....

In respect of adding cropped images (you can't show the whole cert for copyright reasons - just the relevant cropped sections), have a look at this link here on RootsChat www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,130922.0.html

Isabella looks to have been alive in 1891 and you have a second chance at place name/county in Ireland  :

Arthur McKarnes 56, warehouseman, b. Camer (?) Ireland
Isabella McKarnes 45, b. Camer, Ireland
Arthur McKarnes 24, lav. driver, b. Dundee
Hennry McKinnis 17, van driver, b. Dundee
Arthur McKinnis 8, grandson, b. Dundee
Address:  14 St Peter St, Liff and Benvie, Angus


No sign of Isabella by 1901 and Arthur by himself in the Poorhouse:

Arthur McKinnis, Formerly General Labourer, b. Dundee
Address: West Poorhouse, Blackness Road, Dundee

Regards.

Monica

[MonicaL]

Have you looked at this possible death entry for Isabella:

1891   MCKINNES   ISABELLA       PATTERSON   F   46   ST PETER   DUNDEE CITY/ANGUS   282/01 0332

[MonicaL]

Jules

One avenue for you to follow up for potential additional background on Arthur and Isabella would be through the poor relief applications and records. They can provide if you are fortunate, a wealth of additional family info that you normally would not be able to find elsewhere. Dundee are very good at the preservation of these records.

A couple of sites for you to look at:

www.fdca.org.uk  Have a look at the databases link and links section in particular. You could try contacting through the links tab, the Dundee City Archives www.dundeecity.gov.uk/archives/main.htm and enquire about possible records on Arthur. There may be better links or sources - I'm not sure, but a good place to start.

Also, for background on the West Poorhouse see www.workhouses.org.uk  From the tabs on the left: Workhouse Locations/Scottish Poorhouse/Dundee This covers both the East and West Poorhouse. Fascinating site.

Regards.

Monica 

[kiwijulia]

I've just had a great PM from snowolf:

went to the Library today and looked up the voters lists,heres what i found

1869-1870=Arthur Mckinnes ( Labourer)...St Peter Street.
1870-1871=Arthur McKannes (labourer)...St Peter Street.
                      (notice the spelling of surname )

1872-1873=Arthur McKames ( labourer)...6 St Peter Street.
                       ( again the spelling changes).

1873-1875=he is not listed at this address ,so whether he moved for a couple of year to another house ,but by next year he was back  at different number .

1876- 1892=Arthur Mckinnes (labourer) ...14 St Peter Street.

hope this helps a wee bit for you

So that confirms that the guy in the 1871 census who's name reads Peter is my Arthur.

Thanks snowolf! (I reckon I can hear your accent with the "a wee bit" even though it's typed). Jules
 

[MonicaL]

Snowwolf - you're a star 

Jules, that clears up the confusion on names. To find a poor relief record full of lots of personal info  for Arthur and Isabella's DC (did you look at that 1891 death entry?) and you are pretty much there on this generation.

Regards.

Monica 

[kiwijulia]

Yes, looked at Isabella's death cert - thanks for that (Still don't know why it didn't turn up in my previous searches, but I did manage to find it once I had your info  )

She died in of suspected heart disease at home at 14 St Peters Street,  July 1891 (a few months after the census). Her parents names are given but no county or town name.

I will follow up the other suggestions such as the poor relief record and let you know how i get on.
Isabella's father is a Blacksmith - and I've noted Christopher has posted in the Irish section of Rootschat a link on blacksmiths - say's they are mostly from Cavan. So, who knows - maybe I'll find further evidence.

Thanks for all the great suggestions and help
It makes me smile in wonder at the kindness of stangers helping each other on this site. Really a wonderful thing - thanks again to snowolf - hope you caught your bus.
Julia

[kiwijulia]

I am confused (again )

On ancestry I found the 1891 census with the name McKarnes, the same one which Monica found:

Arthur McKarnes 56, warehouseman, b. Camer (?) Ireland
Isabella McKarnes 45, b. Camer, Ireland
Arthur McKarnes 24, lav. driver, b. Dundee
Hennry McKinnis 17, van driver, b. Dundee
Arthur McKinnis 8, grandson, b. Dundee
Address:  14 St Peter St, Liff and Benvie, Angus

I wanted to view the image on SP so I could see for myself what the "Camer" looked like but I can't find it.
I have tried McKarnes, M*c*K, McKinnis and even Arthur, Isabella and Henry combinations.

In the meantime, here are the other images....

[MonicaL]

Hi Julia

My money is 100% on Cavan as the birth place!

Don't laugh (or  ) but SP have indexed Arthur and family as MCMANNUS:

1891   MCMANNUS   ARTHUR   M   56   ST PETER   DUNDEE CITY/ANGUS   282/01 015/01 030

I warn you now, the entry is over two pages. Arthur Snr starts 3 from the bottom - sadly this means double units to view the whole household ( 5 x 2). Sometimes happens and a pain when it does - both the mistranscription and when household run over two pages!

Again, I'm fairly confident birth place shows as Cavan for Arthur and Isabella.

Regards.

Monica