Author Topic: MASON - Standon, Herts - a puzzle  (Read 3658 times)

Offline Aulus

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,362
  • The black sheep: Florence Stevenson née Hampson
    • View Profile
MASON - Standon, Herts - a puzzle
« on: Monday 04 June 07 19:29 BST (UK) »
Bit of head scratching going on here, so I wonder if anyone else could spare a few moments ...

On the 1841 census (HO107; Piece 434; Book: 10; Civil Parish: Standon; County: Hertfordshire; Enumeration District: 3; Folio: 37; Page: 16; Line: 9; GSU roll: 288825.), I have the following living in Wades Mill, Standon, Herts:
  • Samuel Mason, age 35 (b. 1806), Gardener
  • Hannah Mason, age 45 (b. 1796)
  • Noah Mason, age 13 (b. 1828)
  • Eliza Mason, age 10 (b. 1831)    -   my great x3 grandmother
  • Samuel Mason, age 6 (b. 1835

and then in 1851 (HO107; Piece: 1705; Folio: 538; Page: 20; GSU roll: 193613), living at High Cross, Standon, Herts, there are:
  • Hannah Mason, head, Unmarried Widow, age 59 (b. 1792), Wid Ag Lab pauper, born Standon, Herts
  • Samuel Mason, son, Unmarried, age 16 (b. 1835), Servant, born Standon, Herts
  • Charlotte Mason, granddaughter, unmarried, age 1 (b. 1850), born Standon, Herts

Well, that seems fairly clear: Noah and Eliza have obvious moved out, and the elder Samuel, the husband, has obviously died.

There's a record on the IGI of a marriage between Samuel Mason and Hannah Siggens on 5 Aug 1827 (Batch: M072911)

But then along comes this on the 1861 to throw things into confusion:

RG9; Piece: 806; Folio: 97; Page: 14; GSU roll: 542704; Wadesmill, Standon, Herts

  • Samuel Mason, head, married, age 58 (b. 1803), gardener (domestic servant), born Standon, Herts
  • Mary Mason, wife, married, age 46 (b. 1815), formerly Housekeeper, born Braughen (presumably Braughing), Herts
  • Charlotte Mason, granddaughter, age 11 (b. 1860), born High Cross, Herts

Well, that certainly looks like the Samuel Mason who's the husband on the 1841, but should be dead, according to his widow!  Charlotte looks very, very like the Charlotte Mason on the 1851 census.

I can't find Samuel on the 1851 census, nor can I find Hannah on the 1861 census.  I've also not found an obvious death record for either them.

I suppose it's possible Hannah might have lied about her marital status, particularly if Samuel had run off with a younger woman.  Though if Braughen is Braughing, he hadn't run very far.

It's all making my brain hurt a bit, so another pair of eyes could be useful.

Do you think they're the same people?

Does anyone have easy access to any other records that may shed further light?

Thanks in advance for any ideas!
Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson
Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith
East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton
East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge
Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens
Marylebone & Sussex: Cole
London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman
Bowland: Marsden, Noble
Shropshire: Guest

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline grlune

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 914
  • Grandad - John Gibbons (1920-2008)
    • View Profile
Re: MASON - Standon, Herts - a puzzle
« Reply #1 on: Monday 04 June 07 22:05 BST (UK) »
Hi

seems to me that your theory could be right....

Found these deaths on FreeBMD:

Hannah Mason  JUN qrt 1856, registration district Ware, ref: 3a/109

Samuel Mason SEP qrt 1879, aged 77, reg.dist. Ware, ref: 3a/151


regards, Graham
NAMES & PLACES OF INTEREST:

EDWIN/MOISEY - Evesham (Worcs) and Birmmingam (Warks)
GIBBONS/GURNEY - Rugby (Warks),  Hackney (London)
HUGHES - Bromsgrove (Worcs)
LEACH/HEYWOOD/STANLEY/CATHRO - Toronto (Ontario, CANADA)
LUNE/LOON/LOONE - Birmingham, Fillongley and Coleshill (Warks), Nelson (Lancs)
VINCENT/HUNTER - Bloxham (Oxon), Kenilworth (Warks) and Huyton, Roby near Liverpool
 
*Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Aunt Sally

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
    • View Profile
Re: MASON - Standon, Herts - a puzzle
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 05 June 07 08:09 BST (UK) »
As a pauper, would Hannah have received more parish help as a widow than if she were merely an abandoned wife?  Maybe that´s why she didn´t tell the truth about her husband being dead?  Just a theory.

Aunt Sally
Durham - Brown, Sykes, Cunningham, Morby, Dunn
Oxfordshire - Morby/Moreby/Morbey, Gennings
Worcestershire - Tandy, Tibbetts, Poppett
Yorkshire - Sykes, Kaywood, Brown
Staffordshire - Tibbetts
Ireland - Castlecomer, Kilkenny - Cunningham

Offline Aulus

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,362
  • The black sheep: Florence Stevenson née Hampson
    • View Profile
Re: MASON - Standon, Herts - a puzzle
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 05 June 07 17:03 BST (UK) »
I suppose Samuel might have joined the armed forces, which could explain why I can't find him on the 1851 census, and he might have been slow returning to Hertfordshire, so Hannah assumed she was a widow.  (Giving her the benefit of the doubt ...)

I've sent for those two death certificates (thanks for finding those, Graham!) to see if they can shed any more light, and I've also sent for two Samuel Mason marriage certificates - one in Ware in Sep qtr 1856 (which would fit with Hannah's death), though that's not to a Mary.  The other is to a Mary (Mary Ann Farr), but that's not till Dec qtr 1862, so if it's the right one, what were they doing describing themselves as married on the 1861 census?

Relatives can be such a pain sometimes ...  ;D
Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson
Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith
East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton
East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge
Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens
Marylebone & Sussex: Cole
London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman
Bowland: Marsden, Noble
Shropshire: Guest

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline grlune

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 914
  • Grandad - John Gibbons (1920-2008)
    • View Profile
Re: MASON - Standon, Herts - a puzzle
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 05 June 07 18:13 BST (UK) »
 ... I think the 1856 marriage is is not of Samuel senior but that of Samuel junior (b.1835ish) to Elizabeth Phillips.  This marriage is on the IGI and they are on the 1881 census ref:
RG11/1425   12/50

Regards, Graham
NAMES & PLACES OF INTEREST:

EDWIN/MOISEY - Evesham (Worcs) and Birmmingam (Warks)
GIBBONS/GURNEY - Rugby (Warks),  Hackney (London)
HUGHES - Bromsgrove (Worcs)
LEACH/HEYWOOD/STANLEY/CATHRO - Toronto (Ontario, CANADA)
LUNE/LOON/LOONE - Birmingham, Fillongley and Coleshill (Warks), Nelson (Lancs)
VINCENT/HUNTER - Bloxham (Oxon), Kenilworth (Warks) and Huyton, Roby near Liverpool
 
*Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Aulus

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,362
  • The black sheep: Florence Stevenson née Hampson
    • View Profile
Re: MASON - Standon, Herts - a puzzle
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 13 June 07 16:49 BST (UK) »
I've got those death certificates now, and they are the right people.

Obviously - whether knowingly or unknowingly (and I doubt I'll ever know!) - Hannah was not telling the whole truth when she was described as a widow on the 1851 census.  Though I suppose, it might be an enumerators mistake: I can imagine him having forgotten to ask the marital status question, or finding a blank on his schedules for her marital status and no husband present, puts in unmarried, then realises she has children, so puts in widow to protect her.

The 1879 death certificate is definitely the right Samuel Mason, as the informant is his daughter, my great-great-great grandmother, Eliza Collis.

What's very bizarre about the death Certificate is that the GRO have decided Standon's in Staffordshire.  Registration District: Ware, Sub District: Standon in the County of Stafford.   ??? ???

Even with boundary changes, that seems a bit odd.
Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson
Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith
East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton
East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge
Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens
Marylebone & Sussex: Cole
London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman
Bowland: Marsden, Noble
Shropshire: Guest

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline flashsteve

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 4
  • Info on Daniel Collis b1862 Hoxton, London
    • View Profile
Re: MASON - Standon, Herts - a puzzle
« Reply #6 on: Friday 15 April 11 08:56 BST (UK) »
Am new to all this, but think Eliza Mason is my great great grand mother. Married Daniel Collis 1855 in Shoreditch. Any information you could give would be very much appreciated.
Seeking details on Daniel Collis b: 1863 Hoxton London. Married Annie Swainbury (No Date). Also Daniel Edward Collis b: 11/11/1892 Hoxton, London who married Charlotte Lilian Harris B:1896, in 1914 in Holborn. Also Percy Harris  B: 1886 Wood Green London. Gertrude Emily Harris: b 1884 Islington,
Kate Harris b: 1890 Wood Green, London. Ernest Harris b: 1887 Wood Green, London. Cecil Albert Harris B: 1883 (March) Islington. George Arthur West b1882 St Saviours