Stuck ! What to do next ?

[Nick29]

Could someone please help me ?  I don't have any experience of pre-1841 research......

I'm stuck at my g.g. grandparents on my dad's side.....

William MARTIN, b. abt 1811 in Kent, shown living with wife Mary with children Sarah (9), Thomas (6) and John (3) in Friths Buildings, Eltham High Street, Eltham Kent in the 1841 Census  HO107/482/ 8 - 9

In 1851, there's a William MARTIN living in Frith's buildings with wife Mary, but this time William is born in 1805 in London, Mary is born in 1808 in Chippen, Flintshire, Wales, and the children are Thomas (16), William (9) and George (7).  It's Thomas that is my g. grandfather, by the way. HO107/1590; Folio: 461; Page: 4

Then in 1861, William (b. 1804) and Mary (b. 1808) are living with an Amy MARTIN (b. abt 1808) and they are both shown as "in-laws" to Amy, who is a widow.  Amy's occupation is "Green Grocer", and her birthplace is "Chipping, Herefordshire".  William MARTIN is now shown as being born in London, and Mary in Chipping, Herefordshire, which seems to suggest that Amy and Mary are related. Mary's children William and George are living there as "nephews". RG9/412; Folio: 44; Page: 3

Now, I'm fairly sure that Amy MARTIN was married to William's brother Thomas MARTIN, but I have no proof.  There is a Thomas Martin (b. 1806) listed in the 1841 census living with an Amy (b. 1806, not in Kent) in Eltham High Street.

I can't find any marriage records in St. John's Eltham for either Amy or Mary, but I suspect they were married in Chipping, Herefordshire.  However, I can't check what their maiden names were, so I can't look for marriage records.  At the moment I don't have a proper microfiche reader, so I'm squinting at the Eltham parish records through a magnifying glass (I'm picking a proper reader up next week).  I also can't seem to find christening records for William or Thomas, so I suspect that they were not born in Eltham.

I am a newbie, so there's probably something obvious that I've overlooked, and I would be grateful if one of the forum's more experienced members could give me a hint about where to go with this.

[behindthefrogs]

In 1851 you have two children William and George who were born after 1837.  The birth certificate of either of those should give you Mary's maiden name.  You may also get further information about the informant of the birth.

David

[Nick29]

I knew it would be a case of not seeing the wood for the trees !   

Many thanks !   

[Galium]

Thomas and Amy Martin are in Eltham in 1851 (HO107/1590; Folio: 483; Page: 4) 
Amy's birthplace is Chipping, Hertfordshire.  I can't find a place called Chipping or Chippen in either Flintshire or Herefordshire, but there is a Chipping Barnet in Hertfordshire.   As Mary Martin is down as 'sister to head', while William is 'brother-in-law' in 1861 I think it is fairly certain that Mary and Amy are sisters.

Thomas' birthplace in 1851 in Plaistow, Kent.

[Nick29]

Thanks for all that ! 

I think I now need to establish whether William and Thomas were brothers.  I suspect that the family did not originate from Eltham, because I can't find any applicable christenings on the Eltham parish registers pre 1830'ish.

[bearkat]

MARTIN is a very common name in Kent. 

The IGI for Kent has 1000 entries for the name Thomas MARTIN and 1167 for William MARTIN.

It's going to be tough to narrow down the right family.

[behindthefrogs]

Don't ignore the fact that in 1861 brother in law often meant what we would now call step brother.

David

[Galium]

Don't ignore the fact that in 1861 brother in law often meant what we would now call step brother.

Think it is brother-in-law in the modern sense in this case Btf:  Amy Martin, widow, is 'head',  William Martin is 'brother-in-law'  and Mary is 'sister to head'.

It would make things a bit complicated if William was Amy's step-brother.

[Nick29]

MARTIN is a very common name in Kent. 

The IGI for Kent has 1000 entries for the name Thomas MARTIN and 1167 for William MARTIN.

It's going to be tough to narrow down the right family.

It could be worse - my wife's name is Robinson !  Thanks to everyone for the help so far.