Surname: Glue. Help... I'm stuck. Ho,ho,ho, I'm so funny!!

[PabloC]

Good Evening/Morning!!

Apologies for the spontaneous, yet terrible pun!

I'm having trouble finding a birth date/location for my Great,great grandmother: Ellen Clisham (Nee Glue). Born, 1858 ish.

She appears on the 1891 UK Census with her Irish husband John Clisham, and their three children: William, Sarah and Mary Ellen (My Great grandmother.), located in Liverpool, which ties in as that's where I'm from.

I was under the impression that she was Irish, as that's what's stated on this Census (plus the fact that both Sarah and Mary Ellen were both born in counties of Ireland). However, someone's kindly searched the Irish Griffith's Valuation, and informs me that there were no 'Glues' in Ireland around the time she was born.

But....a BMD search has revealed a marriage between a John Clisham and an Ellen Glue in Farnham, Hampshire in 1876. This roughly ties in with the birth of William two years later in Jersey.

Now, on looking, I've noticed a real concentration of this surname in the Hampshire/Surrey and Sussex area. I also happen to know that a John Clisham, of the correct age, was docked in Hampshire at the time of the 1861 Census.

As I said though, I'm struggling to find a potential birth date. The matching census says she was born in 1858...the Griffiths Valuation has no record of Glues in Ireland at this time...and....the only potential matches for Ellen Glues in the Hampshire/Surrey area are an Ellen Glue born in 1857, yet she died in 1887, and an Ellen Glue born in 1863, which would have made her about 13-14 when she married a 33 year old man in 1876!!! Surely not?!!!

Any help, however small would be seriously appreciated!!!

Regards

Paul

[Nutty1966]

Hi Paul

Just a thought - have you a copy of the marriage certificate, that way, you could confirm Ellen's father's name and maybe we could find them through the census that way.

ELLEN GLUE
1876
APR-JUNE, FARNHAM
VOL 2A
PAGE 161

Jane

[janan]

Hi Paul
I agree with Jane, the marriage certificate is your way forwards (or rather backwards )

Re a 14 year old marrying a 33 year old - with parental consent this would have been perfectly legal. The age of consent was 12 for a girl and 14 for a boy and wasn't raised to 16 until 1926 see

http://www.dixons.clara.co.uk/Certificates/marriages.htm#COL3

My gg grandmother Hannah Noon married my gg great grandfather William Allsop when she was 15 and he 45.

Jan

However Ellen Glue born Emsworth (Havant District) 1863, which I assume is the lady you refer to, is still unmarried in 1881

[Little Nell]

Paul,

Where was the family in 1881?

There is the birth of an Ellen Neal Glue in Petersfield RD in 1852 to consider as well.  Outside the age range but you will need to eliminate that one too.

Nell

[PabloC]

Hello All,

I'd just like to say thanks to you all for helping me out here. Not been doing this all that long (About 2 months), and was expecting to fall flat on my face with this line of my tree, given that I thought they were both from Ireland.

No, I haven't ordered a copy of their marriage certificate yet, but that's the first thing I'll do. The 1876 Marriage Index appears to be the only one between a Clisham and a Glue, plus it's in the right time period.

I've been unable to trace the family on the 1881 Census. However, given that Mary Ellen (My Great grandmother) was born in Curragh Camp, Kildare in 1880, I'm assuming that they were probably still over there in 1881, making their way over to Liverpool at some point before the 1891 UK Census...

Paul

[PabloC]

Good Evening,

Further to my previous entries, I recently obtained a copy of the Clisham-Glue marriage certificate, in the hope that it would shed a bit more light on this area of my family tree....

Not too sure that it has to be honest!!

Well, the ages (and age difference between John and Ellen) on the 1876 Certificate and 1891 UK Census do actually tie in, however, John's profession on the marriage cert is listed as 'Private, 47th Regiment, (With both of them residing at 'North Camp, Farnborough) whereas he's a Shoe Maker on the 1891 Census! Wouldn't this have been a trade that would have required an apprenticeship or something similar? also, this doesn't tie in in with the John Clishams on earlier 1861 Census who's a sailor docked in Portsmouth!

Saying that, there's an Irish John Clisham in Liverpool in 1851 with a 9 year old Irish-born son, also John, who too is a Shoe Maker. This also ties in with the Groom's father's info on the marriage cert. Coincidence?

Sorry, I'm drifting away from the Glue side of things here!! The marriage cert has Ellen's father as being William Glue, who was a Tailor. However, I've been trawling through the Census results for the British Isles, and whilst there are a few William Glues (All predominantly located within the Hampshire/Sussex area), there don't appear to be any that match this profile or the likely age that he'd be! And just to stall me further still, I can can find no trace of a likely birth date for an Ellen Glue that matches the 1858 date on the marriage and census info!!!!!


Paul

[janan]

Hi
Re Ellen's birth - have you checked out any births for Female Glue, Eleanor Glue, Helen Glue?
It is also possible that Ellen was not registered as Glue - her mother may have married William Glue after Ellen's birth - not that this helps you locate her

Jan

[PabloC]

Thanks for that advice Jan,

Had a look, using the variations you suggested, and there were two 'Female Glues'. One born in 1856, with a matching death entry in the same year, and...one born in 1858, in the Midhurst area of Sussex. If it's the correct entry, it should state William Glue as being the father.

Suppose I'd best order the birth certificate to find out...

[janan]

I've had a look for this lady in 1861 but no luck. Hope she turns out to be yours.
Jan