Hindon Baptisms and Burials for PERRETT

[Valda]

There are 26 Perrens in Stockbridge on the 1841 census. 19 born there on the 1851 census (excluding Anthony's family who seem to have disappeared - perhaps emigrated).

For the two grandchildren in 1841 these baptisms may be a possibility

Sarah Parrot
Birth:     Milford
Christening:  13 JUL 1834   St Martin, Salisbury, Wiltshire
Father:  Thomas Parrot 
Mother:  Ann 

Emma Perrot
Birth:     Milford
Christening:  14 MAY 1837   St Martin, Salisbury, Wiltshire
Father:  Thomas Perrot 
Mother:  Ann 
   
Marriages Dec 1852
NOYCES  William     Alderbury  5a 380   
Noyes  William     Alderbury  5a 380   
Perrott  Sarah     Alderbury  5a 380

1861 census RG9 1313 folio 7
Weston Con? Winterslow Wiltshire
Charles Noyce 66  Winterslow Wiltshire Head Widower Ag lab
William Noyce 32 Winterslow Wiltshire Son Married Ag lab
Sarah Noyce 26 Milford Wiltshire Daughter-in-law Married
Mary A Noyce 6 Winterslow Wiltshire Granddaughter
Henrietta G Noyce 4 Winterslow Wiltshire Granddaughter
Clara A Noyce 2 Winterslow Wiltshire Granddaughter 
 
1851 census HO107 1490 folio 593
10 Harewood Square Marylebone Middlesex (London)
Sarah Perrett 16 Millwall Wiltshire Unmarried Housemaid

Regards

Valda

[colinsorigins]

Thank you Valda for that very useful information.   Unfortunately I have just returned the film of the Winterslow PR to LDS so I cannot follow-up all the details immediately, no doubt I shall borrow the film again, for about the fifth time.   The marriage of Sarah to William Noyce is relevant because Sophia Jane Goddard married Charles Noyce, and in the 1851 census Mary[now called Ballard] and another daughter,  Fanny, my great great grandmother, were living with Charles and Sophia Joyce

My main interest in Emma and Sarah Perrett was whether their presence with Mary Goddard(=Ballard in 1851) could cast light on where Mary had come from and what her maiden name was.   Following your information, I have found in the IGI[from LDS member] the marriage of Thomas Perrett and Anne Goddard in Laverstock 23 Oct 1832.

This now gives a new avenue for research, based on the possibility that Anne and Mary Goddard were sisters, and that Mary kept switching between her married name of Ballard and her maiden name of Goddard.   This has to be linked to her place of birth as Ropley Hants. in 1851 census, and the probability that she and her husband John Ballard were living in Ringwood Hants. around 1810.

All comments on the above most welcome.

Good luck

Colin

[Valda]

I saw the Mormon church member submission for the marriage of Thomas Perrett and Ann Goddard. Laverstock marriages have some coverage on the BVRI (1726-1906)

http://genoot.com/downloads/BVRI2/

I checked for the marriage and did not find it - but it is an index not obviously the actual registers themselves which do not have coverage on the IGI.

Mary Ballard gives her age as 73 on the 1851 census birth year circa 1773 in Ropley Hampshire. Fanny Ballard was aged 27 birth year circa 1824 in Winterslow (Mary would be 51ish - her relationship to Fanny isn't given and Fanny wasn't present in the household in 1841). Sophia Jane (Jane on the 1851 census) aged 29 birth year 1822 Winterslow. Sophia Goddard on the 1841 census was aged 20.

For some reason it was necessary for Sophia to marry twice (it would be interesting to check her father's details on both marriages to see whether any changes were made)

Marriages Mar 1844   
GODDARD  Sophia Jane     Alderbury  8 355   
NOYCE  Charles     Alderbury  8 355

Marriages Jun 1844   
GODDARD  Sophia Tane (probably a mistype in the actual index)     Alderbury  8 415   
NOYCE  Charles     Alderbury  8 415

Mary Ballard is given as mother-in-law to Charles Noyce on the 1851 census. Also on the 1851 census 5 households before is Emily Perrett aged 13 born Milford staying with Sarah Noyce.

Given the ages it would seem logical to presume that Mary Ballard/Goddard born circa 1773 would be Emily's (Emma born 1837) grandmother not her aunt and that if a marriage did take place between an Ann Goddard and Thomas Perrett in 1832, then Ann Goddard was probably the standard age - opening 20s - birth year circa 1812ish (when Mary would be 39).

Fanny married the same year as the 1851 census. She wasn't sure what her surname was.

Marriages Jun 1851 
Ballard  Fanny    Alderbury  8 437   
Goddard  Fanny     Alderbury  8 437   
Sheans  Charles     Alderbury  8 437

Do you have the baptisms of both Sophia Jane and Fanny in Winterslow?

Mary Goddard on the 1861 census aged 85 born Ropley was still living with her daughter Jane. Her death was registered as Ballard.

Deaths Mar 1867 
Ballard  Mary  90  Alderbury  5a 145

Following on this line of enquiry has all the potential to be a complete red herring, but on the 1841 and 1851 censuses you have Ann Perrett (a widow from the information on the 1851 census) working as a servant at Laverstock Asylum and born circa 1812 Titchfield Hampshire. Later in 1851 she remarries.

ANN PERRETT
RICHARD COLLINS
Marriage:  13 APR 1851   Saint Martin, Salisbury, Wiltshire

The couple then live in Laverstock where they have one son and Ann is widowed again.

Regards

Valda

[colinsorigins]

Thank Valda, your thoroughness is amazing.

Charles  Shean is actually Shears and he and Fanny Ballard/Goddard are my greatgreatgrandparents.

Your suggestion that Ann is Mary's daughter makes eminent sense and seems to fill another gap in the jigsaw for this family which has confused me for several years until I transcribed part of the Winterslow PR.

I have had from the outset the following children for John and Mary Ballard baptized in Winterslow:

Sophia Jane - 15 Jun 1817
Fanny          - 18 Mar 1821 [in 1841 I believe she was the servant Fanny   
                                            Goddard in Broughton]

I have now found:-

Mary Ann Ballard baptized Ringwood 3 Oct 1804 father John no mother given
Richard  Ballard baptized Ringwood 25 Oct 1810 father John no mother given
Louisa Goddard baptized Kilmeston 22 Jan 1815 father John mother Mary 

As I have written this I have found the following:

Eliza Ballard baptized Ringwood 1807 father John Ballard
William Goddard Winchester 20 Oct 1811 parents John and Mary Goddard
[There is a marriage in Winterslow for an Elizabeth Goddard with William Goddard as a witness, but these are more likely to be the children of Philip and Elizabeth Goddard born in Winterslow]

Richard Ballard married Fanny Coleman in 1830.  In the 1851 he gives his birth as Winterslow but there is no such birth in the PR.

Louisa Ballard married William Hatchett in 1842 and died in 1846 - tantalizingly there is a 37 year old widow called Louisa Roberts who is the keeper of the Lamb Inn in Salisbury in the 1851 who was born in Ringwood.

It is tempting to believe that Mary Ann Ballard baptized Ringwood is the Ann Goddard married in Laverstock.   There does seem to be a strong family connection, however, I am worried that Titchfield seems a long way from Ringwood, but then so does Kilmeston where Louisa was baptized.

My main interest is to trace the ancestors of John and Mary Ballard.

All I know about John is that he was buried in 1843 aged 73.

Mary was born Ropley about 1778: I have been unable to confirm this because there are gaps in the Ropley PR as filmed by LDS .   The only explanation I can see for the use of the Goddard name after her marriage is that it was her maiden name.   This leads me to a working hypothesis that she was the daughter of Philip and Ann Goddard who first appear in the Winterslow PR with the birth of their son John in 1788 followed by the burial of Ann aged 27 also in 1788;  Philip was remarried to Elizabeth.

All inputs most welcome

Best wishes

Colin

[Valda]

Colin

Richard Ballard gives his birthplace as Westmean Hampshire on the 1861 census circa 1806. He died just after the census. The nearest to Westmean would be West Meon - not far from Ropley but a long way from Ringwood. In 1851 his birth age is consistent circa 1806. I don't know his age on death as it is to early in the death register for ages.
There is a Peter Ballard buried in the West Meon registers in 1800 - 1st April.

Hampshire has poor coverage on the IGI only about 43% parish coverage pre 1813. The BVRI supplements it (often not from the registers themselves but from the Bishops Transcripts which leave gaps - but with Ropley I think the baptism register is missing for the crucial period - Hampshire Record Office would be able to confirm that)- no coverage of West Meon on either. Hampshire Genealogical Society have a baptism index on CD but only from 1813 onwards.

There are a lot of Ballards in Ringwood on the censuses and as yet there really is no evidence which proves they have anything to do with the Ballards you are interested in. After the baptisms you have mentioned the series continues in Ringwood with John's wife named as Sarah.
e.g.

JOHN BALLARD
Christening:  20 DEC 1812   Ringwood, Hampshire
Father:  JOHN BALLARD 
Mother:  SARAH 

You also have no evidence that Louisa was baptised in Kilmeston. Goddard is not a rare surname and you would expect at least some John and Mary Goddards to be having children in Hampshire at this time.

At this point you have only three potential earlier born children - pre Sophia Jane and Fanny in Winterslow.

Richard born circa 1806 - possibly West Meon
Ann born circa  ?   (no evidence as yet to believe her name was anything other than Ann) - still to eliminate or confirm the Titchfield possibility for a birth.
Louisa - you don't specify her age born circa   ?   (have you found her on the 1841 census - does she indicate not born Wiltshire?)

There is no indication as yet that where ever and when they were baptised they were not baptised in the name Ballard.

Did Richard marry as Ballard?

Louisa married as a Goddard (is her father's name on the marriage entry given as Goddard or Ballard?)

Marriages Mar 1842   
GODDARD  Louisa    Alderbury  8 349   
HATCHETT  William     Alderbury  8 349

We presume but as yet have no evidence for that Ann married as a Goddard circa 1832.

Was John buried as a Ballard? His death seems to have been registered as such.

Deaths Sep 1843 
BALLARD  John    Alderbury  8 152

If he was buried in 1843 where was he on the 1841 census - and Richard and Louisa?
Does John's burial entry give any further information?

Therefore at this point the known period of Goddardness starts post Fanny's baptism in 1821? By 1830 at least if Richard married as a Goddard not a Ballard? And lasts until certainly John's death in 1843 when it becomes more dual and fades completely by 1851 when it returns to Ballard. (Richard's family were Ballards in the 1841 census so they are the exception - are their children baptised as Ballard or Goddard?)

The most likely reason for the Goddard alias would be that John was born illegitimately. At this point there is no reason to believe John did not marry Mary and their children were not born legitimately.

Have you tired the Hampshire Genealogical Society's marriage index for potential John Ballard marriages to Mary in the Ropley/West Meon area or perhaps John Goddard to Mary?
I think the index is probably only available to search for members of the Society (which is by the way an extremely good one - with a very informative quarterly journal).

http://www.hgs-online.org.uk/

Regards

Valda

[colinsorigins]

Thank you Valda for your trenchant critique.   I shall attempt to answer some of your questions, but I have been deluged with much new information in recent days and I have not had the opportunity to research it.   The registers of most of the parishes of interest are available on film from LDS and I shall be looking at them when I return to the High Wycombe Family History centre in September after the holidays.

Firstly, my overall view is that John Ballard was an itinerant worker or was moving between the estates of his landowner employer.   The fact that his family lived at the eastern side of Winterslow suggests that he, as were many of my ancestors, was a forestery worker.   In terms of the records, we only know where and when children were baptized, we do not know where or when they were born or their age at baptism.   One hypothesis that I am working on is that Mary was Mary Goddard and was the daughter of Philip and Ann Goddard who were the first Goddard family to appear in Winterslow and presumably came from Ropley.

For all of the Ballard/Goddard children, the father's surname on the marriage certificate is the same as their's on the marriage certificate.  Fanny gives her father as John Ballard[I have the certificate].   Richard married as a Ballard and gave his father as John Ballard.

I did look at the film of the Ropley PR and the crucial part was missing.   I shall borrow the film again to look for Philip and Ann Goddard.

I understand your point re-Ringwood baptisms.   My current view is that there were two John Ballards, one of whom was married to Sarah.   The only evidence for this is that Mary Ann was baptized before the marriage of John and Sarah.

I am quite comfortable with Louisa Goddard.   Her baptism in the IGI is 22 Jan 1815 with parents John and Mary Goddard.   I think it is "almost" beyond the realms of coincidence that Louisa, John and Mary should turn-up in Winterslow.   In the 1841, there is a Louisa Goddard as a servant in Quarley Hants who was born in county - bear in mind that there is a Fanny Goddard as a servant in Broughton in 1841.   A witness at Louisa's marriage was Sophia Goddard;  Louisa was 27 when she was married in 1842.

John was buried as Ballard, there is no further information.

Mary was buried as Ballard but Goddard name also appears in the PR burial record.

Where were John and Richard in 1841?   I do not know, but both of their wives were in Winterslow.   My only suggestion is that, if they were father and son and itinerant forestery workers, they were working away from home.

With respect to Ann Goddard in Laverstock, I am entirely dependent on your input.   Again we are relying on the extent of coincidence, but the observation that Emma and Sarah Perrett are staying with Mary Goddard in 1841 strongly suggests a causal link.  [The Laverstock connection requires further consideration, for instance there are eight Goddards in the 1851 giving Laverstock as their place of birth, also, as far as I know, Laverstock is in the parish of Ford which is a detached parish of Idmiston and would appear in the registration district of Andover].

Best wishes

Colin

[Valda]

Richard Ballard gives West Meon as his birthplace circa 1806, so for his baptism to be Richard Ballard in Ringwood in 1810 his baptism would obviously have to be a late one.

JOHN BALLARD
SARAH PECKHAM 
Marriage:  11 MAR 1806   Ringwood, Hampshire

A first or second marriage for the same John? What status does he give on his marriage? A late start for the couple if their first child was baptised as late as 1812.
 
The Ringwood sequence of baptisms is

3rd October 1804 Mary Ann- father John

1807 Eliza -  father John

RICHARD BALLARD 
Christening:  25 OCT 1810   Ringwood, Hampshire
Father:  JOHN BALLARD 

1812 John - parents John & Sarah

1815 Elizabeth - parents John & Sarah

1818 George - parents John & Sarah

1824 Martha - parents John & Sarah

This sequence doesn't indicate a late baptisms for Richard. The register itself presumably gives no indication that this was the case?

and burials

2nd March 1817
Daughter aged 9 of John

8th September 1822
Daughter infant of John

1841 census HO107 398/21 folio 21
New Street Ringwood Hampshire
John Ballard 55  Born Hampshire Labourer
Sarah Ballard 55 Born Hampshire
Richard Ballard 4 Born Hampshire

1851 census has John Ballard pauper aged 68 born Sandford Ringwood in an institution and a married Sarah of the right age, also born Ringwood and married, visiting.
 
You would need to check the West Meon (close to Ropley) baptism registers for Richard Ballard's baptism to eliminate him being baptised where he said he was born.

At this point you have no evidence of the use of the Goddard surname until 1841 - unless Ann's marriage can be found in 1832 to Thomas Perrett since Richard married as a Ballard.

'I am quite comfortable with Louisa Goddard.   Her baptism in the IGI is 22 Jan 1815 with parents John and Mary Goddard.   I think it is "almost" beyond the realms of coincidence that Louisa, John and Mary should turn-up in Winterslow.'

But did John, Mary and Louisa Goddard turn up in Winterslow or did John, Mary and Louisa Ballard turn up in Winterslow? Since why would there be a one off baptism as Goddard when all the other known children were baptised as Ballard (jury still out on Richard and Ann though)

The IGI gives a Mormon submission for a possible marriage of a John Goddard (but no marriage found - Hampshire Genealogical Society might be able to say from their database or not whether such a marriage exists).

John Goddard
Birth:  27 APR 1793   Sarisbring, , Hampshire
Death:  24 NOV 1860   

Parents:
Father:  Daniel Goddard 
Mother:  Maria     
Mary Saunders 
Marriage:  About 1815, Hampshire
 
Have you checked the Kilmeston parish registers to see what the occupation was for John Goddard and whether it was the same as for your John Ballard.

Regards

Valda

[colinsorigins]

Hi Valda

Thank you for your comments and questions.   The most relevant answers will have to wait until September when I can start ordering films at my Family History Centre again.

My first priority will be the Ringwood PR.   I need to establish whether there were two families with John Ballard as the father, also, an age for Richard when he was baptized would significantly advance the cohesion of my thesis that these are the John and Richard Ballard who arrived in Winterslow.

I presume that the family arrived in Winterslow as Ballard because the next two children were baptized Ballard.   I can only guess at why Louisa was baptized Goddard but, by the same token, I cannot explain why Sophia was baptized Ballard and married as Goddard with father John Goddard, whereas Fanny signed as Fanny Goddard akas Ballard and gave her father as John Ballard.

One new piece of information.   John, Mary and Sophia Jane all died in Gunville, albeit separated by many years;  this does support the view that John was absent at the time of the 1841.   In modern Winterslow, Gunville is a road about 100 yards long which is a continuation of Middleton Road which would have been Middle Winterslow in 1841 and was where Mary Goddard was living in 1841;  in 1881 my grandparents were living in Gunville Drove.

Regards

Colin

I would be very grateful if a Rootschatter could supply a map or description of Winterslow pre-1900.   I am particularly interested in the eastern end including The Common, Gunville, Middle Winterslow and The Shripple.

Many thanks.

[Valda]

I think before checking Ringwood baptisms I would order West Meon - if Richard's baptism is there then Ringwood is eliminated.
I would also look at the Laverstock marriages for the two Ann marriages. The second one would give her father's name.

Regards

Valda