Jannet/ Jennet HALLIDAY/HOLIDAY

[stoney]

Hi, I'm back again, trying to bust this brickwall!

Apologies to all who have already been helping me (Riever & Co, etc) but I live in hope that someone "new" out there holds the missing piece to my jigsaw puzzle (well, I can dream, can't I?)

Anyway, Jannet HOLIDAY (or other spellings) - the MI from her headstone is thus:

                       IMO John Beattie in Thorniewhats who died 28th October 1769
                       aged 68 years. Also his spouse Janet Holiday who departed
                       this life 11th February 1775 aged 56 years.

From this I calculate her birth to be in the region of 1719.

However, the only marriage I can find for these two names is dated 04 Dec 1717, Langholm, as recorded in the parish registers. The place fits, as this particular family of Beattie's seem to have stayed in the Cannonbie/Langholm area for many years.

That suggests an anomaly to me!

I have looked all over Canonbie churchyard to try to find Jannet's Headstone, to see if the dates were mis-transcribed - no luck.

I was told that a number of headstones were removed and stood up next to the walls but many are badly weathered and unreadable.

Apparently, there is also a different inscription on the other side of the stone:

"IMO Margaret Byers spouse to Samuel Beattie who perished in Caulfieldhill April 8th 1826 aged 27 years" (Reiver has kindly sent me details concerning these names - tah!)

If anyone can unscramble this mix up of dates I'd be delighted to hear from them!

[Gadget]

Hi Stoney

I had a similar problem with one of mine in Kells. I even went to the headstone and peered at it very closely to check that it was correct. This meant that she would have been in her 60s when her last child was born and was many years older than her husband. It seems that the stonemason must have misread or someone had mis-written the age and she was 68 rather than 86 

Have you got  the birth/baptismal dates of her children which could give you some indication of her possible age?

Gadget

[stoney]

Hi, Gadget!

Reiver sent me details of baptisms for children of John Beattie and Jannet Holiday from 1742 - 1756 which would seem to tie in.

The only "fly" in the ointment appears to be the proclamation in the Langholm parish registers, of the Beattie-Holiday marriage in 1717.

It looks like this Janet and John may be a differerent generation - there's a long gap between the marriage and the first recorded baptism!

Or even a completely different family!

 What do you think?

[Gadget]

Well, if the children where born 1742-1756, it seems a mighty long time from 1717      I think that it is probably an earlier couple. Given naming conventions etc. , it's quite likely that the same names would crop up in a number of generations. Have you checked on possible children for the 1717 marriage?

I'd be looking for a marriage around 1740-42. However, it could have been by proclamation 

Gadget

[stoney]

No, haven't found any other births than 1742-1756, which includes the line I'm decended from: Walter Beattie bap. 21 Apr 1751 (and I've downloaded the opr to check the spellings, John Beatty and Janet Holiday)

Searching on Scotland's people only brings up the 1717 marriage for the names Holiday and Beattie (and spelling variations)

'Tis a mystery!

[Gadget]

and I presume that you've checked in neighbouring parishes, other MIs, etc. 

Gadget

[stoney]

and I presume that you've checked in neighbouring parishes, other MIs, etc. 

Gadget

....well, I don't really know where to begin....

[Gadget]

Here's a parish map of Dumfriesshire:

http://scotlandsfamily.com/parish-map-dumfries.htm

The neighbouring parishes would be - Ewes,Westerkirk, Halfmorton and Middlebie but 

I'll have a think and look but they might have come/gone from a variety of places 

Gadget

[Reiver]

Hello Stoney,

I've been checking details to see if I've been giving you wrong information - but I don't think I have

Based on the memorial at Canonbie John was born 1700/1701 and Janet was born 1718/1719.
On that basis he was 18 years older than she was.  There is a marriag (proclamation a couple of weeks earlier) - as has been recorded from the Old Parish Register (OPR) - at Langholm/Stapelgorton of John Beatttie and Janet Holiday in 1717.   Obviously there is something inconsistent here     I also found a baptism in 1724 - six  years later in the same parish (same source) of a Beattie - no forename- to John Beattie and Jannet Holliday.  Looked in period 1716 -1736 and found only this one to JB and JH.  In Westerkirk there were several to John Beattie - but only his (the father's name) was recorded

It would appear that JB and JH married in 1717 and did have a child born in 1724.  Could these have been they whose memorial is at Canonbie?   Only if significant errors had been made in the reading and/or transcription in the 1960s (It is from that period that the trnascriptions were done).     

The OPR for Canonbie (via ScotlandsPeople) shows six children born to a John Beattie and Janet Holiday between 1742 and1 1756 (Jean (1742); John (1744); William (1746); Peter (1748); Walter (1751) and Andrew (1756).

JB and JH had a child baptised in 1724 (See earlier).  Andrew was baptised 32 years later  Although these are not birth dates some of them have been traced forward and they are certainly not, I belive, late baptisms.

It would appear that there were two John Beatties and two Janet Holidays or possibly one John Beattie and two Janet Holidays.        In the circumstances  it may be sigificant that the John Beattie marriage (1717) is spelt Beattie whereas the later baptisms   in the 1740s are spelt with -tty.    On the other hand . . . .             

Very very odd.   Any other thoughts please?

Regards
Reiver