Coat of Arms

[behindthefrogs]

Sorry I have confused you.

The charge is a picture of say a bear's or lion's head actually on the shield.

Your plain red shield supported by two stags has me completely confused.  I need to see the picture of that one.  A plain red shield with everything else surrounding it doesn't sound like an English or Scottish Coat of Arms and so your Polish guess could well be right.  I have vague recollections of seeing European Continental Arms like that.

David

 

[harewoodhouse]

thanks once again...yes the stagg one looks old and according to M-I-L they used to have in the family a tankard type of mug in silver  that had the same crest on but it was pretty old and beaten up when she saw it as a kid and she doesnt know who in the family had it or where it went, which is a shame as the silver mark on that could have been interesting she is going to try and track it down. Both tobias and james quinn were married to women from the deknight family so it could of come from there we just dont know

[harewoodhouse]

Hi there,   M-I-L's brother just sent me a  copy of the stag  crest that someone in the family carved, I don't know if they made any better job of the stags then my attempt and I see that they have the shield as white or silver..but as I said just plain and also it is a different shape then mine, I suspect that I used artistic license and changed them but cant remember as I did the tapestry over 20 years ago, I am waiting on M-I-L to send me the proper photos but thought I would put this up to show you so you get a basic idea of what I am talking about

[cassandra123]

There is no such thing as a family coat of arms.    A coat of arms was awarded to an individual and is only valid when passed in unbroken descent from the recipient to elder son to elder son. until it becomes extinct due to a break in  births of Sons..   The son has to apply to the College of Arms for permission to use the Arms and it has an addition made to it to distinguish the descent.

The Lord Lyon,  Chief Herald for the Scottish College of Arms (Heraldry) has made it quite clear on his site what he considers the use of Arms not awarded to the person himself being used.

The Court of the Lord Lyon, The Heraldry Society of Scotland - UK Heraldry

Also interesting is this site done for the benefit of America  n researchers by  Dick Eastman their senior genealogist. Psst want to buy a coat of arms

The British College of Arms also set out the rules regarding them.

In a word  you are not entitled to Arms simply because you have a certain surname.
http://www.sog.org.uk/leaflets/arms.pdf

[behindthefrogs]

Differences are applied to Coats of Arms for two reasons

1) When the father is still alive to create a coat of arms for the various sons.  Once the father dies the son usually adopts the father's arms without difference unless his wife comes from a family which also has a coat of arms.  The differences for sons are constructed in a standard manner.

2) When a descendent down a male line becomes entitled to a coat of arms then these are often created by adding a difference to the coat of arms of the main line.  Differences were also added whenever there was any doubt about the pedigree.

That said the rules are different for every couhtry including England and Scotland and of course the royal family seem to bend them at their own convenience.

David

[harewoodhouse]

  cant find the old topic.^(*)
got the photo of M-I-L's crest, and you know how I told you  behindthefrogs that there were two quinn crests...well I have found some of it...look...this is all she has of the painting of the crest that was done in the 1800's  a little scrap and sad to say there was some writing on the back and it turns out the family history had been written down there but some little kid got into the box it was kept in and tore it all up...the other crest was of the snakes and cresants that I told you about, well part of that is on the dunraven crest  see,  but look how they have the arm with the dagger on that one and the quinns have it on the one with the stags...strange

Moderator Comment: topics merged
^(*) Go to your profile and click on "Show the last posts of this RootsChatter" to find any of your previous postings 

[harewoodhouse]

   this is the back of it, and the carving I must of seen when I did my tapestry as it has a red shield

[harewoodhouse]

these are the shields as they are on my tapestry  that I did about 20 years ago so I was only very young 

[harewoodhouse]

I think the crest was painted by edwin quinn who lived  1854-1925  and the part of the name that you see is his grandson edwin who was born in 1910 as the other edwins were 1882 and 1933 so dont think it was them.