The mystery and the monkey (can you help identify?)

[JAP]

Elaine,

From the first photo image (though I didn't post this - not sure why) I thought it was a false beard!

Good to have this thought confirmed.

And the chap two in from the left at the back (with Gggpa's hand on his shoulder) has a weird beard.

I guess this means I'm going for a theatrical origin.

JAP

[fred1951]

Hi Andrew

Oh I do love these sorts of threads 

I'm sorry the only thing I noticed was there footware, the shoes/boots don't look like work ones, when I first saw them I thought they looked like tap shoes! 

Julia

[JAP]

Julia,

Rotten duplicate threads! 

As Little Nell said on the other thread:
"the footwear looks too polished"

Yup!  Have to agree!

Which doesn't prove it's theatrical - but surely the people were very prepared for the photo.

JAP

[AndrewMartin]

this is true.

and photography at around the date it was taken would have been quite an occasion, for which you'd want to look your best (as it wasnt often or cheap).

plus i would imagine that Railwaymen and Sailors would have had someone quite strict above them, reminding them to polish their shoes.

[Gillg]

Just being picky here, but earlier I mentioned the railwayman who looked as if he were about to be strangled by the sailor behind him - why, oh why, has he thrust his leg over the shoulder of the man in front of him, if it's supposed to be a serious posed picture?

And is the chain in gt-gt-grandfather's hand connected to the monkey, do you think?  It's certainly not a watch chain.

I love the way the caps on the front row all flip over to the same side, but I'm not sure those beards are false.  There were some pretty eccentric beards and whiskers around in those days.

Gillg

[AndrewMartin]

There were some pretty eccentric beards and whiskers around in those days.

Gillg

indeed there were - so much so that the phrase 'fen tiger' was coined to give a name to fen folk whose head and face of hair, combined, resembled a mane.

<file that under random pub trivia>

I have no idea what that man is doing. It's almost as if he rushed into the photo and quickly sat down before the picture was taken.

[millymcb]

Hi All,

What I find odd about this photo is the beards in relation to the date of 1880s.  Now I'm not a beard expert or anything but I got to thinking that they were very Abraham Lincoln like so I did a bit of googling...

Abe Lincoln grew his beard in 1860 and had it like that till he died in 1865. 

There were a few variations on  moustache-less beards around...
 

The chin curtain beard "grows along the jaw line and covers the chin completely. This is not to be confused with the chinstrap—a style of beard that also grows along the jaw line, although does not fully cover the man's chin. This style of facial hair was made famous by individuals such as Abraham Lincoln. It is also worn by married Amish men"  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chin_Curtain


and a neck beard "An old beard that is grown only on the neck and worn without a goatee or moustache. Also known as a Scarf."  as sported by an America Naturalist called Henry David Thoreau  seen in this picture here...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_David_Thoreau
He lived from 1817 - 1862.

Then there are mutton chop beards... long sideburns but not joining on the chin - 1840s-1870.
http://www.wordinfo.info/words/index/info/view_unit/3365/?letter=B&spage=1


BUT..I can't see any evidence for beards of this type in the 1880s.... men seemed to have started growing beards WITH moustaches and the beards seem a lot tidier.

My feeling is that this could be an earlier picture in 1860s (or maybe even earlier). 


So Andrew - I guess my question is how sure are you of the names and dates you mention... Are you sure you have the right person as the man with the monkey looks too old for it to only be 1860s?  Could it be HIS father by any chance?


Milly

[millymcb]

Hi all...again


Forgot to say - got so distracted with the history of male facial hair - that my first thought on the photo was crew of a steam-ship or paddle steamer.   Then I looked up RTYC (in google books...have you tried it, it's fantastic) I found a Hunt's Yachting magazine from 1854 with a fabulous account of the launch of the Royal Albert  - huge celebrations and yachts from the RTYC accompanying it from Woolwich to Gravesend.   

It might not be relevant - it's earlier than expected, and in the wrong place - but if my theory on the beards and date holds water you never know

See pages 336-338 here. (particularly the RTYC account on p 337)

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01qc/

and picture

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01qe/

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01qf/



Now I'm worried about my beard theory...so I checked and here are two examples (if the dates are to e believed) of men with chin beards in 1854.


http://www.rootschat.com/links/01qd/
and
http://www.kencom.ca/kennedytimeline.htm

Prince Albert also had a chin beard in 1854 - although unfortunately he also had a moustache!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/albert_prince.shtml


Now I'm wondering about the skimmer hats and what years they wore those........ I've got an idea they stopped wearing  them before the 1880s...... No - now I'm becoming obsessed with the monkey picture....I'm off to bed. 


Would love to hear your thoughts on my crazy theories

Milly

[Gillg]

Milly

Fascinating to see the descriptions of the different types of beards, but I have to say that I have a photo from the late 1880s/early 1890s of my gt-grandfather and  8 elders of his Baptist church in which all of these types of beard are displayed, plus beards with moustaches and moustaches with no beards.  The beards are of varying lengths, some just following the chin line, others flowing down over the neck, and in one case down over the chest! These are mainly older men, a couple with just a moustache looking rather younger than the rest.

Gillg