Family Crests - Jenkins

[Jamjar]

Greetings,

I've been looking up my family crest/coat of arms and different sites seem to have different ones.

Any ideas on who to trust?

jamjar

[Uncle Reff]

From http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/Faq.htm

Q. Do coats of arms belong to surnames?
A. No. There is no such thing as a 'coat of arms for a surname'. Many people of the same surname will often be entitled to completely different coats of arms, and many of that surname will be entitled to no coat of arms. Coats of arms belong to individuals. For any person to have a right to a coat of arms they must either have had it granted to them or be descended in the legitimate male line from a person to whom arms were granted or confirmed in the past.

Hope this helps - John

[Jamjar]

No it doesn't really help me. 

So, it's a crest I am looking for then?

Jamjar

[behindthefrogs]

Once again the answer is no.  Our American cousins call "a coat of arms" "a crest" and this is unfortunately slipping into our language.  The crest sits on top of the helmet in the coat of arms.  Its history is that it belongs to a particular family although it is often more widely used than by a single line of descent.

A coat of arms is granted to an individual and descends through the eldest son.  Other members of the same family if granted a coat of arms will use a variant of that granted to the father.  There are various rules for how this is done and a pedigree can often be derived from the shield and crest from a coat of arms.

Strictly using a coat of arms which have not been grated to you is illegal although in recent years prosecutions have only been entered into for commercial reasons.  You can display the shield of your employer to show your subservience to him.

If you look at the coat of arms in my avatar, the crest is the swans neck and two wings which probably show descent from the Duke of Boulogne.  The ermine part of the shield is derived from the arms of William FitzEdlyn while rest of the shield has a very doubtful origin from the mother of William the Conqueror.

David

[mike175]

I think the confusion aften arises because of the firms that sell you a 'family crest' or coat of arms together with a surname history. I suspect these are almost always totally worthless in terms of family history, and are really just a pretty picture to put on the wall.

Mike.

[Taffy Lee]

Jamjar,

I think what Jamaine was pointing out was the fact that simply because a person's surname may be Fitzroy (for example), it does not mean that they are entitled to the Fitzroy coat of arms.

The college of arms web site explains how to go about proving your right to a coat of arms - in your case, it would require proof of your descent on the eldest male line from the original bearer of the Jenkins coat of arms (which you may well have done already).

The reason for different versions of the arms appearing on different web sites could be down to legitimate variations (as described by David) - or something as simple as the artist using the wrong colours, or leaving something out by mistake.

If you Google "heraldry" you get a number of sites (some a bit gimmicky) that explain the various symbols and colours used in coats of arms.

Regards,
Lee

[Jamjar]

This is all very interesting. So, Mike are you saying that the companies who do the family history name bits, are just making up the things they prepare?

Jamjar

[behindthefrogs]

This is all very interesting. So, Mike are you saying that the companies who do the family history name bits, are just making up the things they prepare?

Jamjar

The companies who produce these name details extract various bits of information from various sources and put them together into a story which fits together but sometimes is far from the truth.  If they can't find a coat of arms then they find a family of a remotely similar name and use that.  Have you ever found a surname for which they say no coat of arms available?  No because they want to sell you products using their coat of arms.  Sometimes because it's a new name they say they will find it for you.  On some of the sites the shields that they show don't even obey the basic rules of how the colours should be combined.

All the evidence that I have about the Edlin family, and I am part of a group who have a huge worldwide history for that family, shows that a large proportion of the information on the surname sites is rubbish for that family.  For that reason I would not trust any other surname.

David