Birkin Family.

[MaryA]

Last one for now

1851 Watnall? Greasley, Nottinghamshire
Emanuel Leivers Head M 38 Carpenter Nottinghamshire Greasley
Mary Wife M 37 " "
Joseph Son 15 Coal Miner " "
Sarah daur 12 Scholar " "
HO107; Piece: 2125; Folio: 162; Page: 20

[Roy]

Thank you MaryA for all your information. As you do mention the marriage of William Birkin ( my grgrandfather ) to Sarah Leivers and the doubts about the authenticity perhaps a more full explanation of my problem may enable you to help me further.
I was always under the impression that Sarah was the daughter of John Leivers & Cristiana Meakin and had one child Moses ( my grandfather ) for who I have the B.C. born 2/12/1868 at Newthope. Sarah died 1870 and Moses was raised by his grandparents Luke & Elizabeth Birkin at Eastwood. I have since found a William Birkin married Sarah Leivers daughter of Emmanuel Leivers & Mary Guyler. They had two chldren Mary Elizabeth born march qrt 1865 & Arthur Henry born Sep qrt 1868. Elizabeth and Arthur were raised by their grandparents Emmanuel and Mary Guyler. The problem I have is that I know for sure Moses was born Dec 1868 thus making it impossible for Arthur Henry to be born Sep qrt 1868.
Thanks again for you help,
Roy.

[MaryA]

Sounds confusing. 

I'm assuming that Moses birth certificate states his parents to be Sarah and William Birkin. 

I can follow the two Sarah's through and their ages are very similar aren't they?  The marriage certificate is a must to discover the father's names in this instance.  You must have it right and Sarah (dau of John and Christiana) is his mother since he is with those grandparents.

I think what has probably happened is that I discovered the marriage of Sarah Leivers to William Birkin and jumped to the assumption that they were Arthur and Elizabeth's parents.  I would think that there is another Sarah married to a Birkin, as yet we have no evidence of what his first name is and I think possibly the only way to find this out is with the birth certificate of one of the other children.

[Roy]

Thanks for your further reply .
Moses's b/c names his parents as Sarah Leivers & William Birkin he was raised by Williams parents.
Elizabeth & Arthurs father was William Birkin and they were raised by Emmanuel Leivers which suggests he was Sarahs father rather than him being John Leivers.
I have a marriage registered for William & Sarah and will take your advice and obtain a copy of the certificate.
Regards,
Roy.

[MaryA]

So you have the birth certs for Elizabeth and Arthur too? and the mother is also Sarah Leivers?

I know there are two Sarahs one to each of the sets of parents, but I certainly can't see marriages for two to two William Birkins, I'll be interested to see the results of the certificate.

[Roy]

I will take you back to where the confusion begins :-
My findings.
Sarah b. c1840 was the daughter of John Leivers & Christiana Meakin.
1861. Sarah was with brother-in-law John Barton & Wife Mary Leivers.
1863. Sarah married William Birkin.
1868. Moses born.
1870. Sarah died.

Alternative suggested by another researcher.
Sarah b. c1840 was the daughter of Emmanuel Leivers & Mary Guyler.
1861. Sarah was with grandfather William Guyler.
1863. Sarah married William Birkin.
1865. Elizabeth Mary born.
1868. Arthur born.
1870. Sarah died.

 I have no certificates for Elizabeth Mary or Arthur as they have only recently become known to me.
In a previous message I doubted Arthur & Moses could have the same mother because of their birth dates, however I found a birth registered June 1867 for Arthur Birking who I believe is the son of Sarah making it possible for her to be the mother of all three children.

[MaryA]

I think I've almost followed that 

Like you I was able to find two separate Sarah Leivers to different parents but only one marriage to a William Birkin. 

My gut feeling is that your original line of research is right since Moses birth certificate confirms the father as William Birkin.... but with reservations.

I feel there must be another marriage out there that hasn't yet been transcribed for the other Sarah Leivers, or transcribed incorrectly.

I don't find them in the IGI, parish registers might well be your best place to look, maybe if you were to order the birth/marriage films for the appropriate parishes that might produce some results. 

There is a birth for Elizabeth -
Mary Elizabeth Birkin March qtr 1865 Basford 7b 91.

Unfortunately it will hit your pocket most but I feel that the only way to be certain is with the certificates.  The marriage will confirm the parents of Moses parents.  But it may be that you need Mary Elizabeth's birth to confirm her parents and so discount them from your line.

[Roy]

Thanks for all your help Mary, I will order a copy of marriage certificate Basford 7b 253 Dec 1863 for William & Sarah and let you know the outcome.
Regards,
Roy.

[Heather D]

There is another marriage. Not sure whether this will help but I have a feeling this is the "other" Sarah Leivers, although the age is creative at times. You will still need a cert to find out which one is yours!

Sarah Leivers and Henry Smith Gonalston 16/03/1868

1871 she is in Gonalston born c.1842 Eastwood
1881 in Long Eaton, born c.1841 Newthorpe
1891 in Long Eaton born c.1845 Newthorpe

Heather