william Davies

[Bethan]

Please has anyone got the 1851 or 1861 census for Merthyr, I am looking for William Davies born around 1825, he would have been living with his son Thomas who was born in Merthyr in 1846, what I am trying to establish is the birthplace of William and the name of Thomas's mother. I realise that Davies is a very common name, and that it will be like looking for a needle in a haystack, but I would be really grateful if someone could help me.
Thank you so much
Best Wishes Bethan

[osprey]

Do you have any more info? There are several Thomas Davies b. 1846 +/- a year with father William on the 1851 census, but none of the fathers are born 1825. On the 1861, there's a Thomas b. 1848/9 with father b. 1825.
Have you any idea of occupation?
Do you have either of them on another census? If so, could you post the details or at least the full census ref.
If you have a marriage certificate, is there any clue in the witnesses?

[Bethan]

Hi Osprey, thank you for your interest, unfortunately the only thing I have regarding William is a photograph taken in 1872 with the age 47 written on the back, I did my sums and came up with 1825, but I am afraid that I might have made a mistake.The age 47 could be the age that he died, he was killed by a blow from a policeman's truncheon during some sort of industrial dispute in Merthyr. All I have on his son Thomas is the fact he was born in Merthyr and in later censuses Thomas was a coalminer.William was reputed to have been a bare fist boxer, but I do not think that would have been put as an occupation on a census sheet as it was probably illegal.Also someone in Williams family(I do not know if it was William) was reputed to have been born in the West Indies.
I was shown an 1871 census that had been virtually destroyed by a cup of coffee, and the only thing I could make out was the last name of Davies and West Indies, at the top of the sheet was the name Evan Evans born Taibach.Sorry If I have confused you, but I was only handed the photograph today by an elderly 2nd cousin also he gave me the little snippets of information, and you know what family legends are like!But Thomas's birthplace and date is correct.I have him on the 1871, 1881, 1891 and 1901.
on the 1871-RG10 Piece 5329 Folio 53 Page 29.


39Crins? Street, Rumney,parish bedwellty, Monmouthshire.

Thomas Davies 25 head, m, collier,Merthyr
Elizabeth Davies 25 wife, Cardiganshire
James Davies 12 months son, Rhymney

Thank you anyway for your interest it is very kind of you.
Best Wishes Bethan

[osprey]

Think this one will need to be a step-by-step search given the common names. I've had a look at the family in 1871 and I'm pretty sure that the address is Carno Street in Uchlawrcoed, Rumney. From that, there is this possiblity in 1861, but no father on hand, I'm afraid.

1861 81 Big Row, Uchlawrcoed RG9/4002 folio 60 pg 18
Thomas Davies boarder 15 coal miner b. Merthyr Tydfil
William Phillips boarder 13 iron miner b. Merthyr Tydfil
Big Row is in the same enumeration district as Carno Square. I included the second boarder in case his name provides a clue in Merthyr.

Do you have the birth certificate for James? Given his exact age on the 1871 census, this looks a good bet
James Davies mar qtr 1870 Bedwellty vol 11a pg 88
This is the only entry on Freebmd for march and june quarters in 1870. But, it still might be a good idea to get the certificate from the local office and ask them only to issue it if the father's name is Thomas.
Bedwellty registers now at Blaenau Gwent
The Register Office
The Grove
Church St
Tredegar
NP22 3DS
01495 722305
The mother's maiden name form the cert should help you the marriage certificate to get William's occupation.Without the occupation the 1851 census is just guesswork. The names of the witnesses might help as well. There are several possible marriages for a Thomas Davies to an Elizabeth up to 1870 in Bedwellty, including 2 to an Elizabeth Davies.
You're quite right, bare knuckle fighting was illegal so it won't have been his occupation on the census. The industrial dispute angle is something else you could follow up. I seem to remember from history in school that they were quite frequent, but if that's how William died, there will have been an inquest and that will have been reported in the local papers. I see that you're in the Rhondda, could you get to the central library in Merthyr to check their collection of newpapers?

[Bethan]

Hello Osprey, thank you so much for all your help and information, I will certainly look into the birth certificate and the newspapers, there is just one thing that I forgot to put in my original post that might be relevant, William Davies was known as Will Hirwaun, so if any of the William's that you found on the census were born in Hirwaun they could possibly be the correct one., also two of Thomas's children were born in Hirwaun.
Thank you again for taking so much trouble to help me, Best Wishes Bethan

[osprey]

haven't spotted one born in Hirwaun, or one born Aberdare (parish covering Hirwaun, I think) with a son Thomas in 1851.
Could be he used to work in Hirwaun ironworks? Or his fights took place in Hirwaun?

There are so many William Davies entries that without further info, it's just guesswork. Sorry!

    

[Bethan]

Hi Osprey, thank you again for your help, I wonder if you could do me one last favour please?.Could you look in the 1871 census for Merthyr for Daniel Davies born 1841 in St Vincent, West Indies, he should be living with his wife Lettice born 1837 in LLanelly, in the 1881 census he is living in Gorse Lane, Swansea Town and is running the Cricketers Hotel, if you can find him in Merthyr William Davies should be on the same sheet, as apparently they were related.
Sorry to be a nuisance, hope you can help
Best Wishes Bethan

[osprey]

The family is in Swansea in 1871 RG10/5452 folio 50 pg 43. Could be an army family as younger brother Fred was born in Gibraltar.

This looks like them in 1861. Daniel is at the top of the page, but no William to be seen. 

3 Duke St, Swansea RG9/4107 folio 5 pg12
Jacob Davies head mar 51/57 Chelsea pensioner b. Llandaff
Jane wife 25 b. Devonshire, can't make out parish
Daniel son 20 blacksmith b. W.I.
Jacob son 19 boot closer b. W.I.
John Price son 14 labourer South Wales Ry(?) b. Hants, Portsmouth
Eliza Mary Ann dau 11 scholar b. Gibraltar
Lydia dau 10 scholar b. Gibraltar
Fred Simmons son 7 scholar b. Gibraltar
Alice Jane dau 2 scholar b. Swansea
Julia dau 1 b. Swansea
Harry James son 2 months b. Swansea
+ a servant

suspect the gap between Fred & Alice allows for death of first wife and remarriage. Don't think Daniel will be on the 1851 as the family should be in Gibraltar.

 

[Bethan]

Hi Osprey, thank you once more for your help, I was hoping to find William on this census, never mind back to the drawing board.
Thank you again for everything
Best Wishes Bethan