Author Topic: What makes a Black Sheep?  (Read 15796 times)

Offline Emjaybee

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Re: What makes a Black Sheep?
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 19 July 07 17:24 BST (UK) »
My Aunty ran away at 18 in 1900's with a married man. Then denied her humble upbringing-saying her Dad was a Vicar no less. she never returned, we only found out by accident
Beard Voyce, Scrivens in Worcestershire

Offline geniecolgan

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Re: What makes a Black Sheep?
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 19 July 07 17:31 BST (UK) »
Meldrew,

see, that's what I mean. She let the side down by denying her family. >:( That is Black Sheep.
jc
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Offline Emjaybee

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Re: What makes a Black Sheep?
« Reply #11 on: Friday 20 July 07 09:00 BST (UK) »
My brother has a hobby of writing to the local paper's letters page. One day the editor rang and asked him to help a lady seeking her relatives in Hanley Castle. It turned out she was the daughter of missing Aunt Annie!!! The relatives were of course my maternal Grandad.

How about that for a coincidence?

Mike
Beard Voyce, Scrivens in Worcestershire

Offline Aulus

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Re: What makes a Black Sheep?
« Reply #12 on: Friday 20 July 07 12:18 BST (UK) »
I have just noticed a rootschat member referring to an ancestors photo as "the black sheep" and it got me thinking..............what makes a black sheep?

When would you classify a member of your tree as a black sheep? ???

That could be me.

Say hello to Aunt Florence everyone

<----------------------------------------------

 ;D

Florence was someone whose existence my grandparents acknowledged, but if asked would just clam up and say "oh, we don't talk about her.  She went to London."  They were like a broken record on the subject!  But they obviously didn't feel sufficiently disgraced that they threw the photo away. 
They did at some stage - and quite bizarrely - scratch out the name of the photographer.  I suspect that might actually have nothing to do with Florence, but because the photographer was Henry van der Weyde (Regent St, London), which they might have presumed was German, and they didn't want German names in their family album. 

When I joined rootschat, I thought it was an ideal picture to put up, in the very faint hope that it might ring a bell for someone.  I've always thought that it's too glamorous for an ordinary photo of an ordinary person and I recently sent the photograph to the experts at the former Theatre Museum (now the V&A).  While they couldn't find a likely Florence in their indexed archives, they confirmed that it looked like an actress', rather than a regular portrait.  Unfortunately there's not that many of van der Weyde's portraits on the web, to see if it's a style he used for stage performers or whatever.

The only Florence I've so far found in my tree (and she's the right relation too) was born c. 1878 in Bridgenorth in Shropshire (according to the 1901 census) and married into my family by marrying a John Smith (oh joy!  He could have been called Theophilus Zachariah Smith, to make things easier :o ;D) probably in Blackpool, Lancs.   They had three children between 1900 and 1908.    But the photo is dated to between Sep 1877 and 1902 by the address of van der Weyde's Studio in Regent Street, so I'm not convinced this is the right person.  (Edit: I was right - it isn't the right person.)

Edit: After lots of blind alleys, I finally found Florence.  She's Florence Hampson, born c. 1868 according to her marriage certificate.  She married John Noble Stevenson (born 22 Feb 1862, Hulme, Manchester) at the Register Office in Chorlton, Manchester.  The marriage certificate gives her father as William Henry Hampson, a town traveller.  I've got three possible birth certificates of Florence Hampsons with father William, but there's no way of telling which is the right one, as I cannot for the life of me find Florence on any census to confirm her place of birth.  (Her hubby's not easy to find either - I've got him on the 1871 and 1901 censuses only.)  My guess is that her marriage to John broke down and they went their separate ways, she to London.  Either of leaving her husband or working on the stage (if she did) would have been enough to generate severe disapproval from my grandma.  I fear this is one of those things where the only solution will be a time machine.

But in terms of black sheep uncovered so far there are lots of others: I've one chap, Charles GUEST, who was evidently a bit of a chancer: there are at least two illegitimate children identified so far, a fabulous and really quite funny correspondence with the parish clerks of Fornham St Martin in Suffolk about his debts to the parish including one letter written by him while incarcerated in the Fleet Prison, bankruptcy petitions in the London Gazette and so on.  Though things turned out well in the end as in his will he leaves what then was a humungous amount of money.

On the WILD side of the family, there was always family legend of a highwayman, but until I find any evidence, I treat that with some doubt.
Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson
Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith
East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton
East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge
Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens
Marylebone & Sussex: Cole
London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman
Bowland: Marsden, Noble
Shropshire: Guest

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline northern_rose

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Re: What makes a Black Sheep?
« Reply #13 on: Friday 20 July 07 15:26 BST (UK) »
I have just noticed a rootschat member referring to an ancestors photo as "the black sheep" and it got me thinking..............what makes a black sheep?

When would you classify a member of your tree as a black sheep? ???

That could be me.

Say hello to Aunt Florence everyone

<----------------------------------------------

 ;D


It was indeed ;) Hope you don't mind?

I was rather struck by the photo of Florence - she does look rather glamorous.    My own picture is my father's cousin who was in the entertainment business - she travelled the world in WWII entertaining the troups. She wasn't a black sheep though!

Florence sounds very interesting or should that be fascinating!! If she is the ancestor you mention from Blackpool she went a long way to have her photo taken unless she travelled in the entertainment business perhaps. Good luck hunting her down!
Wilson in the Lancaster area
Clegg in Todmorden
Adamson in Edinburgh
Miller in Edinburgh
Nunn in Norfolk and Co Durham
Smith in Glasgow
Haig in Peebles/Edinburgh
Also Nelson, Gardener, Garnett, Blair, Coleman, Aaronson and many more as the branches expand!

Census info is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline aghadowey

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Re: What makes a Black Sheep?
« Reply #14 on: Friday 20 July 07 17:42 BST (UK) »
Black sheep in the family certainly depends on who's answering the question. My great-aunt would calmly discuss various ancestors- first prostitute in New Amsterdam & her husband the most hated man on Long Island, cousin who committed suicide (although naturally this was a sad subject), etc.- but to her the black sheep was the ancestors' brother who had become Govenor of New Jersey because he got the appointment by being a friend of George Washington while the rest of the family were loyal to the King.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline davierj

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Re: What makes a Black Sheep?
« Reply #15 on: Friday 20 July 07 17:52 BST (UK) »
I can't think of any, but perhaps they all were because they covered it up so well  ;)

Dave
Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk   Research:   Clements, Jenkins, Jones, Williams, Davies, Renfrey in Cardiganshire.   Trow, Jones, Clayton in Montgomeryshire.  Renfrey, Datsun, May, Stephens in Cornwall.   Foster in Liverpoo.l   Milliner, Fry, in Gloucestershire.  Mawby, Popple in Rutland.   Kent, Fry, Robinson, Nott, Griffiths in Somerset.   Willis in Oxfordshire.   Fishlock, Snell, Fry, in Wiltshire

Offline pennine

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Re: What makes a Black Sheep?
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 21 July 07 00:30 BST (UK) »
Well what does make a black sheep? I remember a great great uncle being talked about in derogatory terms because his wife gave birth to several sons who all survived and two daughters who died. Word was ' He couldn't produce a decent healthy female.'
Then there was the side of the family where several of the children suffered from Epilepsy, two died from Epileptic fits. Word was 'Fits run in the family, its from his side not ours. Shouldn't have had children, that weren't normal.'
Then there was the affluent family where the younger daughter decided to be a nurse, the lowest profession in those days especially when she didn't need to work. She was ostracized by her parents and virtually cut off- however when they were both old and ill she returned and nursed them both until they died. Was she still a black sheep or a reformed one, or was she just plain useful when they needed her?
Pennine
Bell, Brodsworth, Felkirk, Wath-Upon-Dearne, Yorkshire<br />Bright, Eyre, Jessop, Wilkinson, Sheffield, Yorkshire<br />Fielding, Lound Retford, Lincolnshire and Sheffield, Yorkshire<br />Law,  Felkirk, Wath-Upon-Dearne, Yorkshire<br />Lister, Flockton, Wath-Upon-Dearne, Yorkshire<br />Mitchell, Langsett, Nr. Penistone Yorkshire.<br />Walton, Cudworth, Barnsley Yorkshire.<br />Stanger, Lincolnshire, Northamptonshire, Yorkshire.<br />Gratwick, London and Kent<br />Fahy, Limerick, Southern Ireland

Offline MarieC

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Re: What makes a Black Sheep?
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 21 July 07 08:09 BST (UK) »
It's all in the eye of the beholder, isn't it?  Pennine, I certainly wouldn't class those you mentioned as black sheep!

MarieC
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