IGI submitted entries

[Stumped!]

I always treat IGI submitted entries with a great deal of suspicion but on the basis that the person submitting the entries must have had a reason for doing so I regard them as a good starting point. The question is how to follow them up if there is no equivalent extracted record?

Here is an example which is causing me problems.
Stephen Birch and Mary Davie(e)s married in Condover, Shropshire in 1811. Between 1812 and 1822 they had five children (Sarah, Edward, Samuel, John and Richard) in various parts of the county, before moving to Wednesbury in Staffordshire.

Somebody has submitted the names and approximate birth dates of a further five children (Samuel, Stephen Jr.,Jane, William and Joseph), born in Wednesbury between 1823 and 1831.
The christenings of three two of these children, Stephen Jane and William, can be supported by extracted records and the two boys can be found with their father in Darlaston on the 1841 census, so I am reasonably certain that they existed.
But what of the other two three, Samuel Jane and Joseph? Is it likely that a family would have two children called Samuel, especially as the first one is still alive?

The film supporting these last five children is titled “Sealings of children to parents, 1919-1949; heir index, 1919-1949” and is not available to Family History centres.
So where do I go from here?
Peter, well and truly stumped.
message (slightly) modified

[Little Nell]

Hi Peter,

If we can "kill off" the first Samuel, you might be better off.

I agree that even submitted entries can be a useful starting point, but as you say you have to find other ways round this.

You could use the burial index online on the FFHS website - they have NBI for Shropshire and Staffordshire.  Perhaps look for a burial in one of the places they lived before the possible second one was born.

Nell

[JAP]

Peter,

Perhaps if you give us the 1841 census details (and 1851?) it might help.  The ages and birthplaces will surely help.

The LDS submissions for Samuel look pretty doubtful i.e. Samuel BIRCH, b about 1823, of Wednesbury.  Perhaps this is the 1816 Samuel with the 1823 date being a guesstimate extrapolation back from a marriage?

I can't see Jane as an extracted record.  And what about the LDS submission for an Enoch b&d 1836?

Regards,

JAP

[Stumped!]

Nell
Please don't kill off Samuel no 1! He's my 2x GGrandfather. He married 19/8/1839 in West Bromwich where he claims to be 23.

Here's the four references:
1841 Stephen: HO107/984/2 F27 P15, Samuel: HO107/979/3 F27 P5
1851 Stephen: HO107/2027 F112 P35, Samuel HO107/2023 F401 P4

JAP
What I thought was an extracted record for Jane is also a submission. Sorry.

As far a Enoch is concerned: he was born 19/8/1835  (Batch C084281) and his mother was Amelia Simpkin who is living with Stephen in 1841/51 and has taken his name. The submission that says he was born (and died) 20/3/1836 with a mother Mary Davis is obviously very suspect.

I have also seen a submission for the death of Mary Davis on 1/12/1833 which looks sensible.

It looks as if the next step is to look at the NBI, doesn't it?

Thanks for your input
Peter

[Lydart]

Of course, if someone could prove your 2xGGrandfather didn't exist, then neither do you !! 

Better go and sit down and have an aspirin ... 

[Stumped!]

What are you??
Red wine is better than any aspirin.
Peter

[aghadowey]

Have had a similar problem with LDS submitted records also but in at least 2 cases I have already had the birth/baptismal & census details myself but the submitter had the birthdates of all the family off by 5 or so years and even added children of a cousin.

[Stumped!]

I just cannot understand why the submitted entries contain so many errors.
What is the point?
Is it a matter of just collecting names, or something?
Peter

[aghadowey]

Think some people think the more names the better and just add anyone with the same surname and then try to 'fit' them into one family tree.