James Turtle

[saxonw.]

I have a James Turtle in my family tree born in about 1811. He spends his adult life (as far as I can see) at Swansea docks where he comes to an unfortunate end in 1847. In 1841 he is living there but is not born in County, (Not surprising a name like that- doesn't sound the slightest bit Welsh). There is a James Turtle according to IGI from Moneycrumog Ballinderry and I wondered if this one the same one. Turtle certainly isn't a Welsh name and it's none too common in England either. Can anyone check up to see if anyone knows what happened to the James born in Ballinderry?

[BallyaltikilliganG]

Some snippets on the Turtles in Ireland
From Ros Davies website freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~rosdavies/ and on looking more carefully at her small list of Turtle surname entries I became interested in following along your Ballinderry request and found among her misc sources

Parish Works Program for Blaris parish,Co. Down, Ireland in 1836 (OSM)

Court Leet Proceedings & Presentments in the Manor of Killultagh in Blaris parish were held twice a year. It was composed of a jury, the tenants of the manor who tax themselves for repairs of by-roads and for other purposes.

The seneschal was William Gregg Esq. and the foreman was
28th May 1836   No.32. To Thomas B. Reford and John Turtle to repair and widen Magee's town Lane in Tannyballydonnell, costs to be levied off Lower Ballinderry, £ 5.
28th May 1836  No.  49. To John Turtle and Jacob Douglass to repair the old road leading from John Turtle's to Balney's Bush, to be levied off Magheramesk, £ 2. applotment £7, no deduction

So we have a household belonging to
That lead me to look at Griffiths Valuation this about early 1860’see www.failteromhat.com/post1845.php Forgetting to type in Co Antrim I typed just Turtle and search and to my amazement a page or two of Turtles appeared, mostly in Co Antrim several Ballinderry

If you go onto the Ulster Historical Foundation website ie www.ancestryireland.com/index.php   you will see along the top information bars, a link to their sister site Tombstones from Ulster ie www.historyfromheadstones.com/ if you enter the lower box with Milltown as the graveyard name you will find.  You then need to be a member or pay fees to look them up and there is no way of knowing how recent the coverage is, but nevertheless its getting information as follows for Co Antrim
Aghagallon Aghagallon Aghagallon TURTLE   
Balmoral Friends Shankill Belfast TURTLE   
Buckna Pres Racavan Ballynacaird TURTLE   
Buckna Pres Racavan Ballynacaird TURTLE   
Buckna Pres Racavan Ballynacaird TURTLE   
Buckna Pres Racavan Ballynacaird TURTLE   
Templecorran Old Templecorran Forthill McKEE, TURTLE


Coming more uptodate 1912 the signing of the covenant www.proni.gov.uk/ulstercovenantsearch/ shows the migratory Turtle continue your thinking, examples
Turtle William J Cullybackey Co Antrim Scotland: West and Scotland: Glasgow Glasgow 100 Wellington Street 
Turtle James Ballymena  Scotland: Lanarkshire Lanarkshire 53 North Street
Turtle John Bellyligpatrick Co Antrim Scotland: Lanarkshire Partick ….
Turtle John James Street Co Antrim Scotland: Linlithgowshire Broxburn Alexandra Hall

Coming more uptodate to 1918 from www.freewebs.com/snake43/virtualmemorialnw.htm
TURTLE,  John (P), 19572, Corporal,  62 Bn. Machine Gun Corps, formerly 12161 Royal Irish Rifles, was KIA on the 20th July 1918  20/7/1918.  Service no. . He was aged 22 and was born in Ballymena, though he lived in lived Belfast.  He is commemorated on the Soissons Memorial, France.

I hope more chatters will join in and focus the efforts to your family, Good luck, Jim

[BallyaltikilliganG]

Unable to stop, I stuck Moneycrumog into google and got a list of Turtles in Ballinderry at
irishgenealogy.net/cp/forum/viewtopic.php?t=583&sid=221aa0b911057adcb0de16646cd0bf75 - 75k - Cached
I think the breakthrough will be  most likely to be a church record. Anyway more good luck, but this time I am switching to another query, Jim

[aghadowey]

The problem is probably not finding details of a James Turtle from Ballinderry area but in connecting any of them to James Turtle to the one living in Wales.

[BallyaltikilliganG]

Yes aghadowey I should have thought of that. So turning to  “SaxonW”  lets recap  at what is known
“SaxonW” knows James Turtle comes to an unfortunate end in1847
Free BMD’s has the reference
Deaths in Quarter Mar 1847   Turtle  James     Swansea  26 474 So we have an exact date of death available.
1. Have the local press recorded the unfortunate end , or just a death notice eg from home.clara.net/tirbach/HelpPageSwanseaTrade.html#Newspapers
The Cambrian      1804 - 1893
Swansea Journal   1843 – 1844 exists in a library, but how about 1847
Seren Gomer        1814- 1815, 1818- 1983
and is there any mention of relatives father, mother etc in the papers
2. Was he buried with a headstone and is it recorded. Is his religion recorded?
3. Going back to his earlier life, it sounds as if “SaxonW” has seen the 1840/41 census, is he recorded there as married, and could she be irish or welsh? I presume this is where his birth date gets calculated as 1811. So he died aged 36 yrs old
4. Is this his child listed in Free BMDs
Births Jun 1842 Turtle  Elizabeth    Swansea  26 518. Is his wifes name on the certificate and anyone else a witness etc
5. Pigots Directory of South Wales (1830), is there one published later perhaps annually showing when he arrived.
 I stop at that, hoping its helpful and not cheeky, Jim

[saxonw.]

James Turtle a hobbler is looking after "the Harriet "in  Swansea docks .Effectively he is a night-watchman of the boat and falls off the back  in the night and is drowned. (Probably drunk-that's supposition I know- but has a ring of truth about it) His death is such as to make the local papers via the coroners report-hence his unfortunate ending. My aim is to join him to the Irish James Turtle. Swansea docks has long had a connection with Ireland. Antrim  I would have thought probably along way north than I would have expected:- Cork would have have been more likely; But to connect him to his antecedents would be pleasing. I know he wasn't born in Glamorganshire: Ireland seems the most likely

[saxonw.]

   oops forgot to mention   Widow is Swansea through and through