Birth Place Confusion in Angus - CARR

[houziwang1]

Hi

I have been gradually tracing back my ancestry. What I know for a fact is they're from Angus but I'm stuck on a key piece of information.

The English 1891 census below:-

RG12/4105/ 143 P 3

Shows Charles Carr, then living in Durham, being born in Scotland at a place I can't locate or spell! The transcript shows it as 'Caller Thune', to me it looks like 'Callu Thune' or 'Callu Hume'!

What I do know is that Charles was the son of James Carr (sometimes written as Cair) who was born in Glammis in 1794 who married his wife Agnes Alexander (born in Glenisla in 1811) at Lintrathen in 1828.

Other than that, I haven't found anything relating to Charles birth or any other prior history of his parents. If anyone, with more local knowledge than me can narrow down the search for Charles's birthplace that would be excellent.

[JEANP]

Hello,

I've had a look at James & Agnes' other children on the IGI I see they had a child born in 1842 Forfar and on the 1841 census Charles' birthplace is given as Forfar. Well when I first saw your post it reminded me of a place near Forfar called "Caldhame", but I've had a look at the 1891 census and can't see the resemblance.

Is this the only census where his birthplace is stated?

Jean

[houziwang1]

Hi

Thanks for your response and for the placename suggestion. I've managed to get a baptism record for Charles' brother James Duncan Carr, who was the first child in the family. He was registered in Cortachy and Clova and the family residence is noted as Bearfauld. I don't know whether this is helpful?

The remaining children don't seem to have been baptised. Also, there's a missing period of about 20 years when none of the family appear in the 1851 or 1861 census (or at least I can't find them if they did!)

Many thanks

[JEANP]

Hello,

This is from the IGI

James Carr b 06.02.1833- c 14.02.1833 Cortachy & Clova
William Kerr b 11.06.1829 Glenisla
David Kerr b May 1846 - c 14.06.1846 Farnell
Alexander Machonack Carr b 19.01.1852 c 01.02.1852 Kirkden
Isabel Fyffe Kerr b 19.10.1839 c 17.11.1839 Oathlaw
Agnes Car b 08.06.1842 c 19.06.1842 Forfar

All these places are in the vicinity of Forfar.

Jean

[houziwang1]

Hi

Many thanks for this, the James Carr is definitely the same one and Agnes & Alexander certainly look interesting. Typically they were born inside the 'lost' years where there's no census information that I can find.

I'll need to do a bit of digging to prove/eliminate the others as the misspelling of names seems to be a recurring theme. Not exactly helpful!!

Cheers

[Forfarian]

on the 1841 census Charles' birthplace is given as Forfar

Don't forget that in the 1841 census it was only the county of birth which was recorded, not the parish. So it means he was born in the county of Angus, which at that time was officially called the County of Forfar. It doesn't mean that he was necessarily born in the town or parish of Forfar.

I can't find the 1891 census entry to check the place name, but I wondered if it might be a version of Caterthun? The Brown Caterthun and the White Caterthun are ancient forts on the summits of two adjacent hills in the parish of Menmuir. There isn't a farm called Catterthun as far as I know, but there may have been one which no longer exists, or which had a different 'official' name which is what appears on maps.

Menmuir would fit in with the family's other birthplaces, which are scattered all over the northern half of Angus.

Have you found the family in the 1851 census at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk? Where does it say he was born?

[JEANP]

Hi Forfarian,

On the transcription I saw of the 1841 census for the birthplace it actually said Forfar, Forfarshire. But without seeing the original who knows!  As from my experience some of these transcriptions aren't very good at all, in fact pretty awful!

Jean

[Forfarian]

On the transcription I saw of the 1841 census for the birthplace it actually said Forfar, Forfarshire. But without seeing the original who knows!  As from my experience some of these transcriptions aren't very good at all, in fact pretty awful!

Well.

The 1841 census did not actually name either the county or the parish of birth. The question asked was, 'Was this person born in this county?'. If they were, the letter 'Y' was entered. If not, the letter 'N' was entered, meaning born in another county in Scotland, or 'E' or 'I' or 'F', meaning born in England, Ireland, or a foreign country. (I presume there was also 'W' for Wales, but I have never actually seen this.)

So any transcription which gives the birthplace in more detail is making unjustifiable assumptions.

I have looked at the original, and it records a 'Y' against Charles Carr (and his mother and siblings). It does not mention Forfar in the birthplace column.

[JEANP]

That clears that up then!!!