Author Topic: A drastic reduction in circumstances!  (Read 3346 times)

Offline kaaren

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A drastic reduction in circumstances!
« on: Friday 24 August 07 21:18 BST (UK) »
My 4x gt grandfather was born in 1776 in Westminster and was a stockbroker by profession and his brother was a lawyer.  In 1816, he is described as a "gent" in the parish registers when his youngest child was christened.  However his children were all hawkers or labourers by profession. 
Is anyone aware of any stock market crashes etc in the 10-20 years after 1816 whereby my ancestor (and it appears his siblings) may have lost all or most of his money?  Or is it more likely that it was due just to poor investments?
If anyone can shed any light or has any suggestions, I would be very grateful.
Regards
Kaaren

Dunn - Bermondsey/Battersea/Southwark
Pemberton - Southwark/Lambeth
Thornton - Battersea/Wandsworth
Wake - Southwark/Mitcham
Burkett - Manchester (bef 1825)
Whichelow - Bermondsey
Stamp - Bermondsey
McQuillin - Southwark
Bayfield - Shoreditch (bef 1850)
Wedwick/Whittick - Bloomsbury
Leiper - Aberdeen

Offline mc8

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Re: A drastic reduction in circumstances!
« Reply #1 on: Friday 24 August 07 22:46 BST (UK) »
the only one which springs to mind was the railway mania-but that was later in the 1840s
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Offline amanda t

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Re: A drastic reduction in circumstances!
« Reply #2 on: Friday 24 August 07 23:17 BST (UK) »
Hi Kaaren

There was a banking crisis with liquidity prices in 1826 when 60 English banks went bust... I guess most of those would be in the London area.

Amanda
Bedfordshire: Myers Newman Hart
Durham: Wilkinson Atkinson Jones Nixon Storey Scott Peacock
Essex: Brooks Kennay
Lincolnshire: Hudson Pell Wilson Fowler
Middlesex: Fiddes Bennett Hunter Brooks
Rutland: Pell
Surrey: Owen
Warwickshire: Dalton
Yorkshire: Nixon Powney
Carmarthen: Jones Pugh
Glam Methyr: Jones Nicholas Parks
Ireland Tyrone: McGill O'Hara

Offline Springbok

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Re: A drastic reduction in circumstances!
« Reply #3 on: Friday 24 August 07 23:27 BST (UK) »
There was a financial crash in  Feb. 1826...haven't looked it up in The Times archives yet

Spring
Dorset: Ackerman,Bungey,Bunter Chant,Hyle
Islington:Bedford, Eaton,Wilkins
Beds,Fulham: Brazier
Shoreditch: Burton,Coverdale
Essex ,Clerkenwell:Craswell,Cresswell
St.Lukes Middx:Doughty, Dunkley
Andover/IOW/Fulham:Gasser
Fulham: Neal
Bucks:Putnam,Wingrove
Bullwell.Notts:Wilkinson
Clerkenwell/Islington:Wyllie
Herts/ Tottenham/Walthamstow:Young


Offline Valda

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Re: A drastic reduction in circumstances!
« Reply #4 on: Friday 24 August 07 23:49 BST (UK) »
If he was a London stockbroker then there will be records on him now held at The London Metropolitan Archives.

URL here

see the information leaflets

City Freedom Archives
Sworn Brokers' Archives

If he became bankrupted or insolvent The National Archives may hold records on him

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/researchguidesindex.asp

see the research guide

Bankrupts and Insolvent Debtors, 1710-1869

If he lost his money through chancery - there were always lawsuits flying around with money, then he may be indexed in The National Archives search catalogue

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/

Bankrupts were announced in The Times newspaper and the London Gazette. The Times newspaper is indexed. You can access it through joining an online library (for free) e.g. Bedfordshire Libraries - you don't have to live in Bedfordshire.

http://www.galaxy.bedfordshire.gov.uk/cgi-bin/vlib.sh

The Gazette you can access here

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/

Regards

Valda

Moderator comment: long URL shrunk!
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Offline kaaren

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Re: A drastic reduction in circumstances!
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 01 September 07 12:21 BST (UK) »
Many thanks indeed for all the information you have provided.  I will check these out.

Kaaren
Dunn - Bermondsey/Battersea/Southwark
Pemberton - Southwark/Lambeth
Thornton - Battersea/Wandsworth
Wake - Southwark/Mitcham
Burkett - Manchester (bef 1825)
Whichelow - Bermondsey
Stamp - Bermondsey
McQuillin - Southwark
Bayfield - Shoreditch (bef 1850)
Wedwick/Whittick - Bloomsbury
Leiper - Aberdeen

Offline Hackstaple

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Re: A drastic reduction in circumstances!
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 01 September 07 12:47 BST (UK) »
The English crisis of 1816 was due to a misconception founded upon the overthrow of Napoleon and the reopening of the continent of Europe to British trade. It was assumed that the continent was bare of goods, and that an unlimited demand would spring up as soon as trade restrictions were removed. The imagination of the British merchant was fired. Great quantities of manufactures and colonial produce were accumulated to meet the expected demand, and prices rose rapidly in consequence. No account was made of the fact that those countries, impoverished by long wars, were unable to pay for the commodities they would gladly purchase. When the ports were opened, English goods were crowded upon the continental markets in such quantities that presently "they were selling for less in Holland and Germany than in London and Manchester, while in most places they were lying a dead weight on the market, without any sale at all." (Lord Brougham, quoted in Tooke's History of Prices.) In consequence of this miscalculation, 6,616 failures took place in the agricultural, commercial, manufacturing, mining and shipping interests of Great Britain, and so many laborers were thrown out of employment, that the country seemed for a while to be on the eve of revolution.
Southern or Southan [Hereford , Monmouthshire & Glos], Jenkins, Meredith and Morgan [Monmouthshire and Glos.], Murrill, Damary, Damry, Ray, Lawrence [all Middx. & London], Nethway from Kenn or Yatton. Also Riley and Lyons in South Africa and Riley from St. Helena.
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Offline Hackstaple

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Re: A drastic reduction in circumstances!
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 01 September 07 13:13 BST (UK) »
By the way Kaaren - the UK stock markets and/or banks suffered major crises about every 10 years throughout the 19th century.

1816  Market Crash in UK

1818 Market Crash in US

1825 'Latin American' Crash in UK

1827 Market Crash in France

1836 Market Crash in UK

1837 Market Crash in France and UK

1847 Market Crash in UK

A similar pattern but on cycles of about 11 years was happening in  America.
Southern or Southan [Hereford , Monmouthshire & Glos], Jenkins, Meredith and Morgan [Monmouthshire and Glos.], Murrill, Damary, Damry, Ray, Lawrence [all Middx. & London], Nethway from Kenn or Yatton. Also Riley and Lyons in South Africa and Riley from St. Helena.
Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline kaaren

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Re: A drastic reduction in circumstances!
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 01 September 07 19:00 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the info contained in both your postings.  I cannot find any listing for my ancestor as a bankrupt - that may be due to the many variations for spelling of his surname - but I will keep trying.  I was curious as to what could have happened to him and his family to go from "gent" to "hawker" within the space of 10-15 years.

Regards
Kaaren



By the way Kaaren - the UK stock markets and/or banks suffered major crises about every 10 years throughout the 19th century.

1816  Market Crash in UK

1818 Market Crash in US

1825 'Latin American' Crash in UK

1827 Market Crash in France

1836 Market Crash in UK

1837 Market Crash in France and UK

1847 Market Crash in UK

A similar pattern but on cycles of about 11 years was happening in  America.

Dunn - Bermondsey/Battersea/Southwark
Pemberton - Southwark/Lambeth
Thornton - Battersea/Wandsworth
Wake - Southwark/Mitcham
Burkett - Manchester (bef 1825)
Whichelow - Bermondsey
Stamp - Bermondsey
McQuillin - Southwark
Bayfield - Shoreditch (bef 1850)
Wedwick/Whittick - Bloomsbury
Leiper - Aberdeen