1841 Census Look up for Fayrer, please.

[KateW]

Thanks Little Nell. 

I had come across him before but thought he was someone different.  I wonder why a David Isaac would then be known as Edward Isaac later in life - for example in all Census returns he was Edward but my Mum knew him as Grandfather Isaac - that was what her father had called him.
There appear to have been some more children.   One found by suzard, in 1851 census - Thomas. 

Thanks for the marriage ref for Thomas - I suppose it is the right one.  How can I be sure? I need to cross ref it with some other mention of him.   I wonder what he was doing in 1841 & 1851 Census.  I will try a search for a mention of him as Gunsmith in Trade Directories for the area.

KateW

[AMBLY]

Hi Kate, Suz....

The Thomas (jnr?)  found in Aberdeen 1871 - I believe  he was emumerated twice in that Census.

The one Suz posted is for the Ships'  Company on board  of the ship named "Clyde"
However, it looks like Thomas was also enumerated off shore:

1871 : Abeerdeen St Nicholas, Aberdeenshire, Scotland
Parish Ref:: St Nicholas 168/1, ED 48, pg 16, HS 91
Address: 1 Nelson Street
Head: Thomas J FAYRER 43, Seaman on H M S Ship Clyde, b England
Wife: Eliza A FAYRER 42, b England, Seamans Wife.
Boarder: Charlotte DELOE? 6, Scholar, b England

You would need to check the originals on Scotlands People. - however, not only do they have his surname right TWICE  but  I doubt there were 2 men of that same name and age on same ship at the same time?

He is also on the 1881 Scotland:
1881: Govan Church, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Ref: Par 646/1, E 8, Pg 9
Address: 32 MacLean Street
Head: Thomas FAYRER 53, Naval Pensioner, b England
Wife: Eliza FAYRER 52 born England

He died that same year in Scotland:
1881: Thomas John FAYRER , age 53, died Govan Lanarkshire

This is only an Index search  - I did try it with a Mother's surname of Ly" and it came up blank, but that is not to say it wasn't  Lynall or similar. You would need to check the original death cert  on Scotland's People -  you are lucky, a Scottish  death cert  has  provision to include the deceased's father's name &  occupation, and the mother's name and maiden name.

There are 5 FAYRER deaths recorded on SP 1855 to 1956. One of them is Thomas J.  But I cannot identify one of the other 4 as being an Eliz*.  It looks to me as if she went back to England after he died and outlived him by 18 years.

Deaths Qtr Jun 1909
Eliza Ann  FAYRER - age  81   - Registered: Portsmouth  REf: 2b 299

Will have a look for her in 1891/1901

Cheers
AMBLY

[KateW]

That's fantastic - I know how useful Scottish death certificates are as I am researching my husband's Scottish ancestors and have found out a lot from the Scotlandspeople website.  Looks like I need to buy more credits with Scotlandspeople then.      Hopefully I may find his parent's details then.

Thanks AMBLY for looking those up for me.

Thanks to all of you for all your help - what a brilliant website this is!!!!   

many thanks,

KateW

[KateW]

Just a thought .......

I had been slightly worried that in the Fayrer baptism detail for son of Thomas Fayrer and Jane, 13 May 1827, the baby was John Thomas and I was looking for Thomas. 

BUT the 1881 death record for Thomas shows he was Thomas John.

Is it likely that for some reason his names were changed around?   I am worried that wanting it to be him isn't the same as it actually being him, if you know what I mean!!

Rather the same as the puzzle over David Isaac / Edward Isaac.

KateW

[Little Nell]

You posted as I was composing the following, but I'll post anyway.

I have finally found your Thomas!  

John Thomas Fayrett, baptised 13 May 1827 Portsea St Mary, parents Thomas and Jane Fayrett.

I also found another child:

Mary Ann Emma Fayres baptised 5 May 1839 Portsmouth St Thomas

I have checked the National Archives records of naval service records: there are five, all born in Portsmouth and area, including your Edward by the looks of it.  It will not give you his parents' names but it will provide you with a description and the ships on which he served.

ADM29/72 includes on (original) page 495 the following about a naval rating:
Thomas Fayrer (birth date and place not given), served 20 Jun 1857 - 29 June 1866

Personally I would not be overly bothered by the switch of names - the surname is quite unusual.  I think you can safely claim him!  If Thomas's wife always knew him as Thomas John, that's what she would tell the registrar.

Nell

[AMBLY]

This looks like it could be Thomas (jnr's?) widow in 1891:

1891: Portsea, Portsmouth, Hampshire
Ref: RG12; Piece: 868; Folio 83; Page 23
Address: 23 Holloway Street
Head: Amelia HUNTER 57, wid, Living on her Own Means
Dau: Amelia HUNTER 30, unm, Hem Machinist (Dress)
Son: Frank HUNTER 28, unm, general Labourer
Lodger: Eliza FAYRER 62, wid, Charwoman
ALL born Portsmouth

But I've lost her in 1901?

She  is not to be confused with an Elizabeth/Eliza C(ulyer?)  FAYRER, a widow born abt 1829 Montreal Canada. She is found in England 1871, 1881, 1891 and 1901 - the last 3 times, in Portsmouth. She also had a son named Edward (born Canada).

Cheers
AMBLY

[KateW]

How very confusing!!

But thanks for finding her in 1891.  What a comedown - Charwoman!!  She must have moved back to be near family.

[KateW]

Hello,

Just to let you know that I found original death record on Scotlandspeople for Thomas John FAYRER and it shows that he died of "congestion of Lungs - 8 days".  It has his father as Thomas William FAYRER but mother's name not recorded, only Mrs FAYRER (deceased).  Presumably Eliza his widow didn't know her mother in law's name.  His occupation is recorded by Eliza as being a Bricklayer - now this suprised me as on son Edward's marriage certificate he was recorded as a Gunsmith.

I would value anyone's comments or thoughts on this.

KateW