Pre 1881 Lookup Pease - Bartholomew TURNER

[kascon]

having consulted the american censuses and having examined the records on familysearch.org i have come to the great conclusion that the records are completley screwed up. they have William and his Father married to so many women and at one point to their mothers and daughters in law. there are so many people who have given conflicting records in desperation i have obtained the addresses of people who submitted the records, there are over 8, and have found one who is reasonably young (one was over 80) who still lives at the address given who hopefully can help me sort this out.
thanks to everyone who tried to help and those who did nothing but argue the case too. lets hope this sorts out the problem.
kas

[bedfordshire boy]

Records are not screwed up. It's how they are interpreted that can get screwed up. Barbara told you to rely only on extracted entries on the IGI - look in the Messages box on the Individual Record to see if it's extracted or a member submission.

Ignore member submissions.

Ignore what other people have put in their trees.

The only way you can sort out the problem, if indeed there is a problem, is to go back to the parish registers, which I doubt if any of the Americans bothered to do.

[Ecneps]

have found one who is reasonably young (one was over 80) who still lives at the address given who hopefully can help me sort this out.

Ooh Kas, a little ageism creeping in there!    
I'd like to think an 80-year-old would be able to help as much as a younger person!
Do hope you find what you're looking for,
Kind regards,
Barbara

[kascon]

well yes possibly but on the other hand i know by experience that older people dont always remember things as it was. whereas younger ones are forced to go through official records. i would rather go for facts than heresay. by the way ive gone through all the other criticisms that all the people on this thread have given me. i cant consult records that are official rather than members submissions because there arnt any only the last. all the records of this family are ones that have been submitted.
and beleive me they are screwed up. i havnt spent the last week printing off pages and pages of records that all contradict each other to come to the  conclusion i am in the wrong.  have you just devoted your entire last week doing just that. i cant get a straight answer out of any of them. so quit being so mean to me ok. there ive put up with this nonsense on here all week. i am just a person looking into their family tree. there are a certain amount of people who have replied to my threads with aggressive and argumentative behaviour  not in the least bit helpful.  this is an injustice to this site where up to this thread i have had nothing but freindly advice.  the Turner family in England has come to an end as my brother and the only other male child of a male Turner of this line have never married. all others it seems went to USA. here is where the English Turner story ends. GOODBYE
kas

[bedfordshire boy]

You've been given advice, not criticism.

Member submissions are not records.

Parish registers, censuses, BMD certificates are records

Where there are contradictions reference to the records is the only answer. But if you're not prepared to do that then you're stuck.

You threw your toys out of your pram on your thread on the General board, now you're doing the same on this thread! I would lock this thread too so that people can stop trying to help you.

As you say, GOODBYE

[Ecneps]

Thanks for your pm Kas. Let's see if we can help you further:

Lindop family 1891 was indexed as Lindorf, and was amended on ancestry by the same man I contacted for you in Spain, so hope he gets in touch with you, he's obviously researching the same family:

1891 RG12/143 fol.62 p.47  29 Rupert Road, Islington, London
Alfred F. Lindop  head mar 28 House Decorator
Mary A       "       wife     "   27
Alfred J.J.   "       son            7 Scholar
Nellie M.     "       dau           6     "
Florence M  "         "             3
Frederick     "       son      11 months
all born Islington

1901  RG13/161 fol.36 p.63  28 Milton Gr, Islington
Alfred F. Lindop  head m 38 House Painter
Mary A.      "       wife  m  37
Nellie M.A.  "       dau  s   16 Housework Domestic
Florence M. "        "          13
Frederick     "      son        10
Charles       "         "           5
Daisy          "       dau         3
Lily             "         "        10 months
all born Islington

Hope this helps,
Barbara

[bedfordshire boy]

Sifting out all the member submitted chaff from the extracted wheat on the IGI it boils down to the following:

William Turner married Elizabeth Kempster at Eaton Bray (3 miles from Studham) on 25 Dec 1852. Whether or not this is your William can only be established by either buying the marriage certificate from the GRO or checking the parish register microfilm at your nearest LDS Family History Centre, to get his father’s name.

I cannot find any children baptised to this couple in either Beds or Bucks, but they may not have been baptised or their baptisms may not be on the IGI. But no children from an earlier marriage were living with him in 1880 in Utah. It’s also worth mentioning that in neither his baptism entry nor his possible marriage entry was he called William Henry Turner – the Henry only appears in the US.

I cannot see them in 1861 –  if the 1852 marriage really is your William it’s possible that they emigrated before 1861 and Elizabeth died in the US prior to him marrying Victoria Goodey (I am assuming William and Victoria married in the US as there’s no trace of a marriage in the GRO indexes 1861-1865, but it's possible I suppose that all the trees are wrong and they didn't marry in 1863, but later. After all if the trees disagree to the extent of either Barking Essex UK or Salt Lake City Utah then the date could equally be adrift). Bart and Sarah could even have joined them later. I have a couple of ancestors who converted to the Mormon faith and emigrated to Utah in the mid 1850s, and I found a lot of detail concerning them in an LDS Family History Centre on a CDrom and in book extracts on Ancestry (which I cannot now access as I cannot justify nor afford their World de luxe membership)

The 1900  US census gives the year of arrival in the States, which would help to pin down when William arrived there, but I don’t have access to this either. You could try a request on the Emigrants to US board for a look up in 1900

There’s a photo of Bart on http://www.geocities.com/phillott/Bartel.htm

In 1861 there's a Victoria L Goodey 20 servant born Halstead Essex living in West Ham. This appears to be same person who the Americans have as the wife of William Henry, so at least she didn't emigrate until after 1861 - a Goodey website puts the emigration year for the family as 1864, so either this date or the Utah 1863 marriage date must be wrong

David

[kascon]

absolutely excellent i cant beleive you found this. its definietly the oldest photo ive got now. after all the poor ol guy died in mid 1880's.
my faith is restored.
i found a report of sarah turner's (barts wife) death. seems she died in wyoming i expect on the way to Utah. ive written to a bloke in usa whose name is turner who is one of the people who reported the info on igi. so maybe when he replies (if) we will find out a bit more.
but again excellent detective work on the photo. many many thanks cant wait to tell my mum. actually there is a family resemblance to my grandfather in his later years.
 
kas

[kascon]

looking closer there was a photo of Sarah Page there as well and one of their daughtrer Ann
kas