1891 Census Request Liverpool, Lancs

[ozmcfall]

Can anyone find this family in 1891 Lancs?  From 1881 I have:

Penrhyn St, Liverpool, Lancs

Robert WILSON Head M 27 b LPool Baker
Mary WILSON Wife 26 b LPool
Robert WILSON Son 7 b LPool
Christina WILSON Daur 10 b LPool
John KELLY Visitor 57 b Ireland

John KELLY is Mary's father. In 1887 my grandfather Arthur John SULLIVAN was born (he was always known as John or "Jack") - his mother was Mary, his brother Robert WILSON.  I presume Robert Wilson Snr died before 1887, and Mary died in childbirth or shortly after as grandad was raised by aunts as an orphan. Arthur Sullivan is listed as the father on Grandad's marriage certificate.

 

[grub]

Hello OZ
My, what a mixture
It appears that Robert and Christina would have been old enough to leave home by 1891.

Do you know where Arthur Sullivan, (who was father on the marriage cert) resided, was it liverpool?  Where did Grand-dad marry?

Unable to track Arthur Wilson, at the moment.
]
Any clues just might help
 
Regards
Grub

[ozmcfall]

Thanks for your replies!  My grandfather is becoming a bit of a headache... (sorry g-dad!). My grandfather is down as "Arthur John Sullivan - father Arthur Sullivan" on his marriage certificate.  How carefully were those details checked in 1919 I wonder? I believe now that the Sullivan was purely an assumed name so really need to find any possible siblings for Robert and Christina Wilson, born Liverpool. He always stated his father was a baker (which Robert Wilson was) and his mother was a Kelly (Mary Kelly I presume!).

I've been searching for any John/Arthur Wilsons born to Mary and Robert in Liverpool. Grandad had cousins in St Helens (believe I've found them in the 91 census).

Also trying to track Christina and Robert in the 91 or 01 census but they won't turn up! Robert joined the marines so he could have been at sea and Christina could have moved to Scotland.

My grandfather celebrated his birthday on July 5 each year and said he was "four years younger" than Nan (making his birth abt 1885).  However just before he died in 1967 he wrote "I'll be turning 80 this September.." making his birth in September 1887! At least it's in the same quarter.

Those are about the only clues I have. He joined the Cameron Highlanders as a boy drummer and was stationed at Fort William ... but of course they have no "John Sullivan" on their roll.  Now if I was sure I was after an Arthur or John Wilson ...??

By the time WWI came around he was going by the name of J Sullivan - that's the name on his medals.  However he was identified by an officer at a railway station "Hello Wilson!!". He straight out said the officer had made a mistake but the officer replied that he didn't forget his men.

Hmmm. What lurks in his past?

[keyboard86]

Hi I know the ages are a bit out, but on the 1891 is a Robert Wilson aged 32 occ Baker, also Blind, with wife Mary aged 32 both born Liverpool, they are with Joseph and Mary Matthews and Robert is shown as Son in Law?

Census Ref RG12/2954/24/3

Have a look and see what you think.

Keyboard86

[Mary Jane Kelly]

keyboard 86,

There are at least three Robert Wilson, bakers, with wives named Mary in Liverpool in 1881 and that Robert and Mary Wilson (ages 37 and 32) from the 1891 Census is closer to this one from 1881 ages 27 and 21 than the Penrhyn ones which are 27 and 26:

Everton Liverpool
Robert George Wilson 27, Baker
Mary Wilson 21

Nis try!

MJK

[keyboard86]

  Worth a try!!

Keyboard86

[weste]

My great grandfather told my grandfather whose surname was blake that the family had changed his surname from richardson. My grandfathers half brother (different mothers) death was put as charles blake otherwise james wood. He has a listing in the death index under both names. When you try to to look his medal index card up you get the same match for his army number under name james wood but on the absent voters list 1917-18 he is listed under his name of charles blake. We don't know his mother is as his father's name is common and we can only definetly identify them in 1901 and 1911. So we don't know whether his real name is james wood or whether that is just a cert obtained to get into the pioneers. Of course his army papers  have 't survived and neither has my grandfathers! My aunt has a medal which i know this james was entitled to and i'm desperate to see what name is on it. It can't be my grandfathers as we have both of his and from the description it is a www 1  1915 medal and i know this james was entitled to one.

[Mary Jane Kelly]

Worth a try!! QUOTE keyboard

The Robert Wilson and Mary Wilson in 1891 that you found were the same ones Chris Scott brought up on a Ripper podcast. So it was worth a try as you are in good company.
The Life and Death of Mary Kelly Part 1 Nov. 10
http://www.casebook.org/podcast/

Can anyone find this Mary Kelly family in 1851?

She's been found in 1861 with two brothers and a sister. The brothers are 18 and 13, born in Liverpool, and their mother is 42 so could have had more children who'd moved out. The Jack the Ripper Mary Kelly reportedly had six brothers and a sister.

1961 England Census
5 Bostock St.

Mary Jane Kelly 7 born Liverpool

Father John 41 born Ireland
Mother Mary 42 born Ireland
William  18  L'pool
Henry 13     L'pool
Ann Amelia 9 L'pool

[keyboard86]

Hi here they are in 1851:-

1851 Census

John Kelly 32 occ Joiner b Ireland
Mary 31 b Ireland
William 6 b Liverpool
Henry 3 b Liverpool
They are shown as Lodgers with William and Maria Cargan/Largan? and family.
Residing at 1, Coburg Street, Toxteth Park, Liverpool
Census Ref HO107/2186/609/33
Keyboard86