Guildford family of Dumfriesshire? (Guilford, Gilford, Gifford)

[Gadget]

Mistranscription might be a problem here.

Another possibility is that they were not Church of Scotland. The main record collections for this time and before are the Old Parish Records from C of S. Other religions - RC and other non-conformist - kept records but notall that many have survived.

Again, not all children were baptized or the record of it was not entered. Marriages were often by declaration, etc. rather than being performed by a minister of the kirk. During the 1780s there was a tax on baptism/marriage entries in the parish records and people did not want or couldn't pay.

There are many reasons why the names don't seem to be recorded.

Gadget

[Candolim_Imp]

I can believe that perhaps they weren't CofS, especially if the theory that their origins weren't Scottish is correct... it's just that the lack of records AND early census returns is really frustrating.

The only Gilford/Gillford/Guilford/Guildford records in Carlisle or Longtown are:

John Wilkinson Guildford birth Carlisle 1858
Samuel Gillford death Longtown 1861
Agnes Guildford married Carlisle 1869 (though Samuel and Mary's daughter, Agnes, is named Guildford in 1871)

I have searched for the 1858 birth of John under Guildford and Wilkinson and also found nothing (hoping that he might be a grandson of Samuel & Mary). I can't locate him in census returns or other BMD returns

[Gadget]

John Wilkinson Guildford, Sept Quarter, 1858, Carlisle, Vol 10b, page 370 but it would only give his mother and you have that. I presume it will give the address.

Wetheral was in the Carlisle registration District.

Have you found what happened to his mother Margaret?

Gadget

[Candolim_Imp]

I do have a Margaret Guildford born c1834 in Scotland, servant in Malham, Yorks in 1871. This could well be her, and might confirm her as another likely child, given the Cumberland link

[Gadget]

It could be.

I've just been going through the 1851 for all the John's born around 1857/8/9 in either Wetheral, Carlisle or just Cumberland. I presume that you've checked for deaths 

Gadget

[Candolim_Imp]

Yup, checked deaths on all varients of the name, and even "John Wilkinson" forenames with no surname. I reckon servant Margaret is his mother.

[Gadget]

While I was looking on the 1851, I found a young John Gilbertson in Carlisle. Father was William. Not sure if any connection but worth investigating 

Gadget

[MonicaL]

Hi Impy and Gadget

Bear with me whilst I set down my theory  Pure spec here, but I think the reason you haven't been able to find out much about the family may be down to their surname changing. With the details for another possible sister Margaret born in Scotland c.1834 showing in the English 1871 census, I searched the English 1841 census for her by first name only.....and up popped I think the family under a slightly different surname. Everyone showing as born in Scotland living in Leath/Penrith, Cumberland:

Samuel Gallahar 50 (can't easily make out his occupations)
Mary Gallahar    40
Peter Gallahar    15
Joseph Gallahar 15
Catherine Gallahar 13
Margaret Gallahar 11
Agnes Gallahar    8

Now searching the OPRs for possible births, brings up this - so happens all in Dumfriesshire  I've highlighted all the possible names that you have shown so far as siblings for John, as you can see they also show:

1   08/11/1815   GALLACHAR   JOHN   SAMUEL GALLACHAR/MARY WILKINSON FR320   M   Graitney or Gretna   /DUMFRIES   827/ 0010 0334   

2   27/02/1818   GALLACHER   JEAN   SAMUELL GALLACHER/MARY WILKISON F   Ruthwell   /DUMFRIES   846/ 0010 0182   

3   06/04/1820   GALLACHER   EDWARD   SAMUEL GALLACHER/MARY WILKINSON M   Ruthwell   /DUMFRIES   846/ 0010 0185   (second entry with slightly different spellings: 06/04/1820   GALLHAR   EDWARD   SAMUELL GALLHAR/MARY WILKISON FR196   M   Ruthwell   /DUMFRIES   846/ 0010 0185)

4   22/06/1822   GALLACHER   PETER WILKINSON   SAMUEL GALLACHER/MARY WILKINSON    U   Ruthwell   /DUMFRIES   846/ 0020 0009   

5   20/11/1826   GALLAHAR   CATHERANE LETIT   SAMUEL GALLAHAR/MARY WILKISON F   Dalton   /DUMFRIES   818/ 0030 0009   

6   06/04/1829   GALAHAR   MARGARET   SAMUEL GALAHAR/MARY WILKISON  Dalton   /DUMFRIES   818/ 0030 0012   

7   10/07/1832   GALLAHAR   AGNES SCOTT   SAMUEL GALLAHAR/MARY WILKISON    F   Dalton   /DUMFRIES   818/ 0030 0019   

8   08/02/1835   GALAHAR   WILLIAM     SAMUEL GALAHAR/MARY WILKINSON M   Dalton   /DUMFRIES   818/ 0030 0023   


Regards.

Monica 








   

[MonicaL]

Just re-reading the posts and #19 caught my eye:

John Wilkinson Guildford. bap 19th Sep 1858 to Margaret Guildford. Wetheral - maybe providing a further link to the Wilkinson surname.

I cannot see a entry for the marriage of Samuel and Mary under this new surname (and its variants).

Monica