Guildford family of Dumfriesshire? (Guilford, Gilford, Gifford)

[Candolim_Imp]

James must be one of 2 of the name that died in June Q 1859, one registered Liverpool, the other West Derby (the children in that decade were all registered in Liverpool, but earlier children and census returns show a link to West Derby registration area, too.

[Gadget]

I've searched for OPR marriages/banns on SPfor any g*for* married Dumfrieshire 1553 to 1854 and only come up with:

9 Feb 1847 William Gifford to Margaret Stewart, Dryfesdale

I was going to do more checks but the site is down for maintenance

Have you checked Cumbria. Just in case they popped across the border?

Gadget

[Candolim_Imp]

That's a good point... I'll do that now! (nothing on A2A or NA for James or John, by the way)

[Candolim_Imp]

The only Cumberland Guildfords are:

John Wilkinson Guildford. bap 19th Sep 1858 to Margaret Guildford. Wetheral
Elizabeth Gilford 16th Jun 1853 to George & Jane. Stapleton
Thomas Gilford 16th May 1784 to John & Margaret. Carlisle
Grainger Gilford = Mary Thompson 24th Sep 1749. Caldbeck

In Westmorland

James Gilford 28th Dec 1785 to John & Hannah. Kendal



The John Wilkinson Guildford looks a possible connection, given the spelling which was being adopted by then by the family. Perhaps Margaret is a possible lead as a sister, too.

[Candolim_Imp]

assuming James Gilbertson was son of John Gilbertson and Margaret Birney... there are 2 sisters in IGI: Mary 28th May 1816 and Margaret 14th Jun 1818 "Graitney", Dumfries

The only age match I can find for James Gilbertson's mother in 1841 is one in Edinburgh aged 50 with a John Gilbertson aged 20, boot & shoe maker (unless the 20 is a mistranscription, as you can't view the original Scottish census returns on Ancestry)

[Gadget]

You could check the 1841 with the Freecen transcriptions or, if you're feeling rash and can wait until after maintenance, SP has them.

I've been doing some surname profilingfor the variations on Guilford and their distribution:

http://www.nationaltrustnames.org.uk/Surnames.aspx

It isn't really a very Scottish name and I'm wondering how they came to be in Scotland - maybe army or cattle trading.


Gadget

[Candolim_Imp]

Yes, given the few Guidfords there, I'm guessing they were only there for a generation or 2.... the Dumfries story would support this theory, being so close to the border.

I had previously been following a Shetland theory, as there are a few Gilfords there... and still could possibly be the origin .... but yesterday I got contact from Mum's 2nd cousin (who we didn't know of), who says his family had the story of Dumfries passed through the generations.

This still doesn't explain why they are so elusive in early census and other records. Samuel and Mary and Agnes are nowhere to be found in 1841 and 1851. There's a possible match to Edward in 1841 in Natwich, Cheshire as Edward Guillesford (or something like it)... but he's a boarder and doesn't help with any family relationships anyway.

[Gadget]

If it's any consolation, Dumfries ran through our family for 3 generations. I found them in Kirkcudbrightshire   

[Candolim_Imp]

Unfortunately, I didn't have the Dumfries family legend when my partner and I went to Kirkcudbright area last year to research his tree... we even drove through Gretna to get there!

I'm still really stuck on John/Samuel and would really appreciate it if anyone had any records or advice to offer to help track him down.

In my experience, scottish records are more detailed and complete than English ones... I cam't believe they're not out there somewhere, but am starting to worry that, for some reason, the family was known under a different name when the children were born and, in some cases, in early census returns.