Lloyd family - advice/suggestions please

[Gadget]

Informtation about Llandegla.

Marriage Ref is ~ Ruthin, Quarter 2, 1866, Vol 11b, p 621

I think that Paul got most of it apart from where John was living at the time.

Gadget

(I think WR was looking for a John Holmes, hawker, and found one on the 1861 census. )

[wilcoxon]

But 1861 isn't right as Miriam gave birth to Margaretta (John Holmes daughter) in 1866

Births Mar 1867   Holmes  Margaretta Anne .   Corwen .
If you can find John Holmes death, then at least we can see how old he was.
There`s nothing close to Corwen district on Free BMD, but at least it gives ages.

[wilcoxon]

Re Miriam, as stated she did marry John Holmes but from what I can gather, he died very shortly after Margaretta's birth, hence Miriam in 1871 in the census living with her mother Margaret now aged 89, her 2 sons Zachariah and Emmanuel and 4 year old Margaretta Ann.

I can`t find this census, where are they living. Where were they born?

[wilcoxon]

Found them now. Still in the same area.

1871 RG10/5682/29 pg 2-3 Vron Cottage Llangar Cymmo Corwen Merionethshire.
Margreat Lloyd head widow age 89 born Bettws Denbighshire
Meriam Lloyd 40 daug Denbighshire
Emanuel Lloyd 18 son "
Zacaria Lloyd 14 son "
Margreat Lloyd 4 daug            (no occupations mentioned)

1851 HO107/2509/375 pg 9 Vron Llantysilio township of Cymmo Corwen Denbighshire.
Ann Lloyd head widow 89 pauper born Denbighshire
Margaret 66 daug unmarried charwoman born Bettws
John 64 son pauper unmarried born Denbighshire
Mariam 24 unmarried daug at home "
John Roberts son 2

[Gadget]

 

Think there's a danger of going round in circles - this from coffecup's first posting on this thread:

Can anyone help me find more information about the family of Zechariah Lloyd born 1859 around Llantysilio Corwen area please? What I have found as follows;

He married Mary Ann Roberts in 1880 at St John Rhosymedre. In 1881 they lived at 7 Queen St  Ruabon with his step daug Ann Roberts aged 2.

1871 RG10/5682/29 pg 2-3 Vron Cottage Llangar Cymmo Corwen Merionethshire.
Margreat Lloyd head widow age 89 born Bettws Denbighshire
Meriam Lloyd 40 daug Denbighshire
Emanuel Lloyd 18 son "
Zacaria Lloyd 14 son "
Margreat Lloyd 4 daug            (no occupations mentioned)

1851 HO107/2509/375 pg 9 Vron Llantysilio township of Cymmo Corwen Denbighshire.
Ann Lloyd head widow 89 pauper born Denbighshire
Margaret 66 daug unmarried charwoman born Bettws
John 64 son pauper unmarried born Denbighshire
Mariam 24 unmarried daug at home "
John Roberts son 2

[despair]

I was trying to imagine the abode for John Holmes as transcribed and could only come up with:-

Pontcysyllte,Pontblyddyn,Pontybodkin(?) and possibly Pentre Halkyn.
(It could of course be an individual dwelling,not a town.village)
The latter led me to a couple of records that had me wondering....

In 1871 there is a Wm Holmes,hawker,born 1815 in Chapel Street,Holywell,just given as born Flintshire,and though I can't connect them there is also
John Holmes in Whitford Street,Holywell,born 1825 Bangor is y coed,a horse dealer(I think),but married.
I don't suppose he could be the father,married bigamously,then disappeared back to his family(as no death record can be found)?
(Apologies to the families concerned if this is just fantasy!)

Regards
Roger

[wilcoxon]

I had thought that, it`s not unknown, but this John must have been quick to have time for hanky panky with Miriam. Reading a lot  about him in the papers, I don`t think it`s him. 

John Holmes of Whitford St Holywell died 22 Sept 1908. BMD aged 83. Probate to John Holmes farmer . Effects £6262.

1851 Holywell
John Holmes 26 b Bangor
Rachel 25
Methusalah 8 b   Caergwrle
George 15 m b Wrexham

1861 Whitford St.
John Holms Marine store dealer b Cawgurley, Denbighshire
Rachael Holms
7 children between 14 and 1.

1871 Whitford St Holywell
John Holmes 45 marine stores dealer b Bangor on Dee
Rachel wife b Delamere Forest.
He had children born in Caergwrle  and Holywell

Rachel died 1874.
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4589296/4589300/13/

1873 John Holmes of Holywell owner of 2 houses in Caergwrle, summoned for have no privy to  his houses 
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4588873/4588879/42/

[despair]

I thought it would be an extremely long shot.He seemed to have a penchant for the odd biblical name as well.
I think your interpretation as "marine store dealer" is the correct one,though his son,alsoJohn,appeared to be a horse dealer.

Regards
Roger

[wilcoxon]

The defendant offered the brass for sale to Mr John Holmes, marine store dealer, Holywell, who refused to buy it, and information having been given to the policethe defendant left the district, and, in company with a friend, booked at Liverpool for America by a steamer which sailed on Monday.

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4592008/4592016/59/