VIC - Marriage(s) -Look up please

[JAP]

Re the number of children on the Jane Elizabeth HEASMAN/Peter ANDERSON marriage cert ...

First the 2 dead children.  William HEASMAN & Jane Elizabeth AYLMORE were married July 1836.  The first record of a child to them is the Jane Elizabeth HEASMAN birth Sep quarter 1838.  So there's time for there to have been an earlier unrecorded child (or even a pre-nuptial child) who died ...

Now the problem of the 7 living children and whether they include George (ca 1865-1870).

Are we to believe the 7 living?  Are we to believe that William HEASMAN died in 1867?  Or is that information just as unreliable as Jane's age (39 at the marriage in 1869 when it should have been 50)?

Perhaps 7 living is because Jane told Peter that 3yo George was her own child - which would have helped confirm a more youthful image (along with dropping Amelia's age a few years)?  And, having done that, Jane had to invent a death date for William which would make George respectably born within her previous marriage to William ...

Of course, that still doesn't help solve the birth of Elizabeth Ann in 1871 when Jane was ca 52 ...

On the other hand, let's assume that George really is a child of William & Jane, and that William really did die in 1867.  A couple of obvious problems are that we haven't found a birth for a George HEASMAN (should be 1865/6) nor any death for William HEASMAN (much less in 1867).

Perhaps the Sands & McDougall's (or another) directory will show whether a William HEASMAN was listed ...

Hmmmm ...

JAP
PS: Thank you for the explanation Sue - when I logged on, I went straight to this thread without looking at anything else!   I can well imagine how distraught Trystan must be - he does a fantastic job.

[JAP]

It seems that a post from osprey was one of those lost.  osprey has very kindly PM-ed me the following fantastic information about the family of Jane Elizabeth AYLMORE in England 

QUOTE FROM OSPREY
"Looks like a possible?
1841 Richard St, Limehouse HO107/701/5 folio 11 pg 14
Ann Aylmore 40 independent 40 not born in county
Amelia 20 dressmaker not born in county
George Tyler 48 labourer born in county
Lucy 40 not born in county
this is only 2 enumeration districts away from the Heasmans at HO107/701/4 folio 5 pg 2

possible death reg  Ann Aylmore dec qtr 1850 Stepney vol 2 pg 341

possible marriage
Amelia Aylmore march qtr 1845 Kensington vol 3 pg 267 with Francis Abear on the same page
IGI batch M079037 25/2/1845 Francis Abear to Amelia Aylmore at St James Paddington

death reg
Francis Abear june qtr 1847 Marylebone vol 1 pg 203   

1851 census 44 Upper Gower St, Marylebone HO107/1494 folio 572 pg 17
Amelia Aber unm 29 house servant b. Hampshire, Portsea
in the household of John Crichton

marriage reg
Amelia Abear dec qtr 1851 St Pancras vol 1 pg 310 with William Henry Hawkins on the same page
IGI batch M047933 Amelia Abear or Aylmore m William Henry Hawkins 11/10/1851 at Old Church, St Pancras

1861 census 56 Whittlebury St, Pancras RG9/109 folio 53 pg 10
William H Hawkins head mar 35 saddler & harness maker b. Middx, Marylebone
Amelia wife 36 b. Hampshire, Southampton
Emily dau 10 scholar b. St Pancras
Thomas son 8 b. St Pancras
William son 3 b. St Pancras
Amelia dau 8 months b. St Pancras
Annie Abear servant unm 16 b. Paddington
plus an apprentice and a lodger

1871 they're in Walsall, Staffordshire RG10/2965 folio 81 pg 21 baby Amelia has become Elizabeth and there's a Lilly 9 born in Deptford.

Also spotted another sibling for Jane Elizabeth
Ann Aylmore bp 23/10/1816 Gosport dau of Josiah and Ann (alias Yelmore)
and a possible marriage
Anne Aylmore march qtr 1838 Poplar vol 2 pg 234, but no IGI entry to help with this one.
There's a possible burial for George Reeves Aylmore bp 1823 in Portsmouth in 1829".

Thank you very very much indeed osprey!

JAP

[annecaroline]

Hi Everyone
 Re the children of Jane Heasman on the Anderson wedding cert:

Did you notice when Jane Wilkinson remarried she states she has two children living and one dead?Yet just a months earlier when her husband dies she has 3 living and 1 dead.A few months after her marriage when applying for Charles Wilkinson's estate she states she is supporting 5 children.
As her age on the marriage certificate is 25yrs when it is really 31yrs -maybe 11yr Rachel was being passed off as a daughter of Jane Heasman.
And maybe they have assumed Annie in NZ is dead?

Who knows-we need to find the death of Jane Anderson,providing of course that Mr Anderson stayed around.

Annie

[Lucy2]

Dear Osprey     

THANK YOU so much for all that amazing information !
So appreciated.

Kind regards
Lu

[annecaroline]

Oh my god!!!!!!!!!!
Should of got the MORININI first-have just downloaded it

Jane is with Mr Bransgrove!!!see bankrupt records

Will just save it and post soon

Annie

[JAP]

Hi Annie,

The suspense is killing me 

Re the number of children of Jane Elizabeth (HEASMAN later WILKINSON later HARPER reverted to WILKINSON) yes that's a good idea that she would hardly want to admit to William HARPER that she, passing herself off as 25 at their 1869 marriage, had an 11/12 yo daughter!

The 5 children she refers to in the estate application in 1870 I took to be her 'gilding the lily' and including the two "children" from Charles WILKINSON's 2nd marriage (Charles, who by 1870 would have been ca 21, and William, who would have been ca 20) as well as her own Rachel, Frances and Florence who, by 1870, would have been ca 13, 6, and 3.

And neither on Charles WILKINSON's 1868 dc nor on Jane's 1869 mc were the nameless babies who were b & d in NSW - a male in 1858 and a female in 1860 - mentioned.

JAP

[annecaroline]

Hi
Attached the marriage of MORININI

Bransgrove would have to be Ebenzer Bransgrove surely.
Found him dying in Parramatta NSW 1868 aged 56yrs

Annie

[Lucy2]

Annie     JAP

O.  M.  G.   !              

Hang on .... I've just got to have a lie down !

[JAP]

Annie,

You are wonderful downloading all these certificates 

And what a find!

If this story were written as fiction, nobody would believe it 

So Annie HEASMAN, at her 1862 marriage to Alexander MORININI in Vic gives her father as William HEASMAN dead, and her mother as Jane HEASMAN now BRANSGROVE m.s. AILMORE!

Can anyone find a marriage for Jane & BRANSGROVE - I can't?

For anyone who wants to refresh their memories of William HEASMAN's 1855 insolvency; and the removal of goods a couple of days before the insolvency (March 1855) and storing of them in Paddington in a house occupied by Ebenezer BRANSGROVE & Frederick Alfred POOLE, see Annie's wonderful posts at #118 and #119 on Page 8, #122 on Page 9, and #166 on Page 12.

POOLE & BRANSGROVE were arrested, and the police were looking for HEASMAN.  P & B were found guilty on 12 June and were in gaol awaiting sentence; then, on 21 July the court ruled that the verdict must be quashed and P & B were discharged ...

Hey, I remember suggesting that Jane might have been in on the con - as how else could William have removed the gear without her noticing.  Hmmm ...

One's immediate thought is that Jane & Ebenezer might have married so that Jane wouldn't have to testify against him - but not only doesn't there seem to be a marriage but the time scale is far too short.

What a story!

Wow!

JAP