VIC - Marriage(s) -Look up please

[Lucy2]

Hi  Jenn   

Thanks.       Yes, correct - haven't found birth registrations for either of Annie's children, Lily and Thomas (nor for James the "nephew"").      There is also no indication on records that Lily had a previous marriage in NZ.

Thomas Richings (junior) was listed on his marriage cert. as a "butcher" (1896) - Electoral records after that date, show him as simply "labourer", though between 1921 -27 he is listed as a "grain storeman".     His apparent "wealth" may have come from his mother Annie's estate - I'm still working to see if there's a probate record in her name.

And headstones - (sorry, dopey me, forgot to include this earlier) - yes, have checked, and there are no headstone transcriptions for any members of this "family".

Kind regards

Lu   

[tropicalj]

Hello  There Lu

now  that  is  an  interesting comment
no  headstones? or  illegible?  and  yet  they  did seem  to  have  had  monies?  I  wonder why  then  no  headstones were erected  on  the  grave  Especially  Lily  as  you say her brother Thomas seemed very  fond  of  her.  Only  me wondering  out  loud  Do  you  live  near  the  Graveyard  or are  you  in another city?

regards Jenn

[Lucy2]

Hi again  JAP    

re: James RICHINGS:

Many thanks for your thoughts on James and suggestions for other follow ups.   (Following this post is some breaking news - birth cert for John Richings arrived today .... )

Yes, quite certain the Thomas R. (Uncle) N-o-K, is the right person.   This "name, Uncle,  N-o-K"  along with address 199 Lyttelton St, Ch Ch. ( and is also the place where Lily died), shows twice on the army file of James.    Electoral rolls - James, seed cleaner, is at 238 Lyttelton St, in 1921, and in 1930 at 24 Mowbray St, ChCh,  occupation - carrier.
Yes, I've checked the whole of the NZ birth and death indexes from beginning to end - no births for these people, and nor did I find a death for James.

BUT, in view of the info in the accident report on John RICHINGS ...  "two adult children", I'm now thinking that James Richings, was not in fact the child of a brother of Thomas and Lily ....(and it was very naughty of me to suggest earlier that Lily must have been James' aunt (just because Thomas was his uncle) !

Reviewing info for James, (and it seemed insignificant earlier) his army file showed his address on enlistment, (1918)  to be "farm labourer, employed by Mr Powell, at Wharatoa, near Balclutha".   (This place was indeed a good way from Balclutha, inland and perhaps remote.  Balclutha is roughly halfway between Dunedin and Invercargill (which is southernmost South Island).  Incidentally, I didn't ever find James or his "Mr. Powell" on electoral/postal rolls.
AND ... at this point, I "smell a big, fat, rat"  !

Obviously, I've asked myself time and again, why NO birth registrations ?     No, Thomas, no Lily, no James,  (and  no registration either for Ivy Elizabeth, my unknown grandmother - but that's another story) who was Lily's supposed "firstborn"?

I now believe it is entirely possible that LILY was the mother of James RICHINGS  !   (She was aged 15 or thereabouts, the birth wasn't registered, James didn't give his parents names on army file (or other details of them) .. why?   To protect Lily perhaps ?   Living around Balclutha also probably puts him in a place near to where John/"Thomas" Richings was at in Dunedin ?
(I haven't yet had time to search thoroughly the electoral rolls in that vicinity).

Just back to James for a mo  ....  yes, he married, apparently whilst on Army leave.   His marriage to Sarah took place on 3 July 1919, at Raffrey, Ireland, (there is an address on Army file showing Sarah living in Belfast before she headed to NZ).   So what was James doing in Raffrey ?
Well, by a very strange co-incidence, Raffrey was also the birthplace of Lily's husband Francis COATES.   My guess, (and James was about 29 at this time), is that if he was indeed Lily's SON,  (and Francis perhaps his surrogate father / stepfather), then he may have gone off to Raffrey, (Co. Down)  to visit Francis's folk     Do tell me, if you think that sounds daft?        The only other "Richings" in NZ who "might have been Lily & Thomas's brother", died in 1936 (after Annie's death) so, unless he was estranged from the family (ha, I'm thinking, "black sheep" in a butchers family ... sorry), then it might be expected he would show up on Annie's death cert?     Confused?   Yep  ... so am I !
Hopefully, the next post re: John/Thomas RICHINGS will also explain a few things.

Cheers

Lu      

[JAP]

Hi again Lu,

You certainly have a convoluted family 

I'm afraid that, stupidly, I hadn't thought that a way for Uncle Thomas RICHINGS to be James RICHINGS's uncle would be for James to be an illegitimate son of Lily - it makes perfect sense.

I see that John/Thomas RICHINGS has been pretty well sorted out on your new thread at:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=262672

I'm thinking about the earliest documented dates you have for your RICHINGS people in NZ.
*John/Thomas RICHINGS
     1881 (the date of the bankruptcy in Dunedin)
     You now also have an earliest possible date for when he left England - 1861 when he appeared in the census.  However other relevant dates are September quarter 1861 (birth of Elizabeth Jane, Sep q 1861), March quarter 1864 (birth of John Blizard, possibly his son - but John/Thomas might have left before his birth), and circa 1864 (wife Sarah Ann said in the 1871 census that he'd been absent for 7 years).
     Do you have any record of John/Thomas in Christchurch prior to his death in 1898?  I ask this because I wonder when he moved from Dunedin to Christchurch given that you are thinking that James's connexion with Balclutha (south of Dunedin) might be relevant to Lily's postulated residence in Dunedin.

*Lily RICHINGS
     Presumably the first documented date you have for her as Lily RICHINGS is her marriage?  Is there any additional information on her notice of intention to marry?
     When (and where) was she married?
     What was her age on her marriage and (1917) death certificates?

*Thomas RICHINGS
     Presumably the first documented date you have for him as Thomas RICHINGS is his (first) marriage certificate in 1896?  Is there any additional information on his notice of intention to marry?
     Thomas's age was (I understand) given as 24 on his marriage in 1896 which gives a birthdate of ca 1868 1872!!. Where was he married?
     His age was (I understand) given as 90 on his death in 1958 which gives a birthdate of ca 1860 1868!!. However, I'd rely much more on the age on the mc which Thomas himself would have given.
     Do you have ages for him from the 1911 divorce, and his second marriage (date?).

*James RICHINGS
     Presumably the first documented date you have for him is 1918 - his date of enlistment on from his army file where he states that he was born in 1890.
     Incidentally, I take it that you are quite sure that Francis COATES came from Raffrey in Co Down?  It then makes perfect sense that James (whether son or nephew of Lily) would visit Raffrey and even marry a girl from there.

I'm still hoping that there might be records to be found under some hitherto unsuspected variation of MORONINI ....
Incidentally, I don't know anything about NZ electoral registers - was it compulsory to enrol?  If so, one might think that Thomas, at least, might have been on an electoral roll before his marriage in 1896 ...

Cheers,

JAP

[Lucy2]

Hi  JAP   

..... oh BOTHER .....   had just typed up details of John' death cert  ....  and other important stuff  ..... thought the message had got through;    clicked on your incoming message ... and .... LOST THE LOT !

Back soon  (when I've stopped cursing) 1

Cheers      Lu     

[Lucy2]

Hi

....   here goes again !

Death Cert information for John RICHINGS :

Died:   2 February 1898 at Christchurch, NZ
Cause of Death:  Accidentally killed by train (Verdict of jury)
Age:   59 years     Occupation:    Butcher
Parents:   John Richings, butcher, and   ?   Richings
(mother's maiden name not given)
Born:    Bristol, England        Religion:  Not given
Years in NZ:    28     Buried: Sydenham Cemetery, Christchurch on  6 February 1898.
Living issue:   1 x Male aged 26 years *
                      1 x female aged 24 years
Marriage(s) :   NIL
Witness at burial:   W. Langford (Funeral director?) represented by T.I. Smail
Informant:   M. Till ,  constable, Christchurch.
                         _________________
* 1 x Male - 26 :   I think I probably forgot to mention, that Thomas's (1958) death notice showed "in his 87th year" meaning he was born c. 1872 - that tallies with age 24 for marriage in 1896.
                           
The "Gloucestershire Look ups board" :    Absolute top marks to "Cazay" who not only supplied great census info but amazingly found (1871), John RICHINGS'  deserted wife Sarah Ann ("husband left 7 years") and a daughter, Elizabeth Jane (9).
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=262672

JAP  ~  many thanks for the information and links you've added at "Gloucester" - much appreciated.

So, the combination of death cert info and census data perhaps "tell a story"  ?

Cheers

Lu     

PS:    Have abbreviated this from my original "LOST" posting so I can get on to the other messages.

[tropicalj]

Hello  there  Lucy  and  Jap

No  one else  has  got onto  this thread which  is such  a  shame as  it is very very  interesting.

A scenario  for  you
Annie  Morinini  widow  didn't mary  Mr  Richings 
1.  Because he was allready  married in  England  (As  dear Cazay  has  found  the details   )  He didn't want to commit  bigamy  just  live  in sin    I wonder  if  there was a will for  Mr. Morini.  Still begggars  the question  why did she go  to  NZ ?

2.  Annie being a widow  maybe  there was a clause  to  her  husband's will that prohibited  her  from  marrying again  or should  would  loose the  dosh?  That  is  possible I  have seen that  in  an offshot of  my  familiy  lines.


Kind regards Jenn

[Lucy2]

Hi  Jenn    

NO  headstones  .... yes, must say I found that a little surprising.   But hey, this seems to be a mighty weird family!

The NZ Gene. Society, many years ago, transcribed headstones for most NZ cemeteries (and info has been added / updated, since) ... so that's the data which I have consulted.    (I'm in Wellington - the Sydenham Cemetery is in Christchurch, South Island).

Cheers
Lu

PS:  Jenn if you go to info just posted - and the link to Gloucester - you'll see what's unfolding.

[tropicalj]

thanks  Lucy  have had a  look.  it  would appear  your tale  is  unfolding nicely  for  you.

kind regards Jenn