VIC - Marriage(s) -Look up please

[JAP]

Aumarire,  Good luck with the Wellington NSW contact!

Lu, I'm trying hard to think of some scenarios to explain the 'bombshell' but ...

Thanks for the reference back to post #56 - I'd completely forgotten about James's 1919 marriage in Raffrey, Co Down (whence Lily's husband Francis COATES originated).  It's hard to remember all the twists and turns.
Whether one could get a copy of that Northern Ireland cert, and what info such a cert should contain, I have no idea.

At least you've finally found Ivy's bc - albeit it's pretty useless!  Do you have her mc and dc with parents' names?  Can't remember whether we've already discussed this.

Given that you've now found Ivy's bc, it restores hope that perhaps you will end up finding birth certs for some of the others - Thomas, Lily and James.

Re the 'bombshell', one thing I'm holding on to is that James's WW1 record referred to Thomas, his next of kin, as his Uncle.  Perhaps James knew that Lily was his mother but had no idea who his father was - but gave some names on the 1945 mc simply for the sake of appearances (to hide illegitimacy).  Only trouble with that is that Uncle Thomas was still alive (Uncle T died - do I recall correctly - in, I think, 1958).  But perhaps there was little chance that Elsie would meet Uncle T and have an opportunity to ask questions if James & Elsie stayed in Auckland (where they were married), and Uncle T in Christchurch.

Best of luck with the ongoing search for some more birth certificates ...

JAP

[aumarire]

Hi everyone,
Fantastic,,, fantastic, and fantastic again, if you remember, I was chasing the William Heasman marriage in Wellington NSW, and the marriage certificate itself had nothing on it. I have to admit that I really did think that perhaps he was NOT ours,, but I rang the historical society in Wellington, spoke to a lady there, who said she would look into the marriage for me, and see what transpires,, well just this morning ( after being without a computer for 5 days!! it crashed on us) i downloaded all the e-mails, and low and behold, what was there but a reply from the lady in Wellington, NSW, here is what she found, and he IS ours after all yeah!!!!!!

On the 7th June 1878 William Richard HEASMAN
Married Harriet Jane NEWBY
At the Parsonage of the Church of England Wellington NSW
Usual place of residence for both parties was Wellington NSW
Parents: William HEASMAN (Engineer) & Jane Elizabeth HALEIMORE/HALEMERE (very hard to read writing)
Edward B. NEWBY (Draper) & Rebecca RICHARDS

William Heasman was a Horse dealer, born at Gulgong NSW
(V18463367 31A/1846)
Harriet Jane Newby was born in Victoria c. 1854
Witness: Rebecca BISHOP
William E. WALES
Minister: Rev. J. C. BRAVEY

then she also sent the following

Information from Wellington Historical Society Records on the death of Harriet Jane COURT – Died 29/08/1918 aged 65 years.
Buried in the Methodist portion of the Wellington General Cemetery and has a headstone. Born Melbourne Victoria, parents Edward K. BISHOP & Rebecca (nee Richards)
Married 1st at Wellington to William HEASMAN, 2nd to John COURT
No Family.

William HEASMAN – Died 13/05/1897 aged 56 years
Buried Methodist portion Wellington General Cemetery Has Headstone
(Wrong spelling and date)
Born Gulgong (V18463367 31A/1846), Married at Wellington to
Harriet Jane Newby, Family: 1 female deceased.

Jane Harriet Newby’s father was given as Edward B. Newby on the Marriage information but given as Edward K. Bishop in death information (not sure if information on death was incorrect, there was a witness at their Marriage that was Rebecca Bishop, and I will leave that one for you to work out.)
On William Heasman’s death information it gives family as one female deceased, I could find no entry for the birth or death of a child to William or Harriet.
It would seem that William had a twin sister Ann A Heasman born
Gulgong (V18463368 31A/1846)

So I will leave all of this with you all, to digest, and get on with answering many many many e-mails that have piled up since the computer crashed.

But another one hits the dust, and is confirmed.
Aumarire

[JAP]

Hi Aumarire,

What great news!

So good to know that William of Wellington is the son of William HEASMAN & Jane Elizabeth AYLMORE!    I take it this was on the marriage entry?

But I wonder where that birthplace of Gulgong NSW for him came from??  Was it on the marriage entry - presumably this was an entry from the church records?   And was his age given in the marriage entry?

Those NSW references are actually baptism records from Victoria (entered also in the NSW records) - both at St James Melbourne (the oldest church in Melbourne - see http://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/info.cfm?top=52&pg=706 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_James_Old_Cathedral ).

Probably easiest to go back to the page 19 summaries.
Both William Richard HEASMAN (the one we take to be the chap who later married Harriet NEWBY) and Ann Amelia HEASMAN (the one we take to be the lady, Annie, who later married MORININI and is the cause of this thread!) were baptized on 16 September 1846 at St James, Melbourne.  Unfortunately, their dates of birth weren't given in the baptism entries.

Yet another puzzle!

JAP

[Lucy2]

Hi Aumarire

Wonderful information !     Well done  ... and thanks   

Dear Jenn ("tropicalj"), has given us some information on "Clan NEWBY" ... way back on page 23 - post #'s 335 and 336.

Harriet Jane's father seems to have been Edward Brough NEWBY - died 7 October 1854 - Prahran, VIC ?

[Rebecca RICHARDS  m. Edward Brough NEWBY - 20 April 1845 - Folkstone, Kent, ENG] : (IGI)

Rebecca RICHARDS (NEWBY) m. (2) Edward BISHOP - 1858

Edward Kirk BISHOP b. 1833 - died 22 Dec 1889 at Wellington NSW ....   stepfather of Harriet Jane NEWBY ?

Rebecca BISHOP (witness at marriage of William and Harriet) - likely to be her mother ?

[Births - Rebecca RICHARDS / Edward Kirk BISHOP  ~

>   Elizabeth  Newby BISHOP - b. 28 January 1859 - Moorabbin, VIC

>   Rebecca BISHOP - b. 1864 - Moorabbin, VIC  ]


Lu

[aumarire]

Hi Folks,
There is a question that I would like to pose to you all, to those who are more informed than I. Can anyone tell me as to whether the New South Wales Registry of Births Deaths and Marriages would hold copies of Births or Baptisms that would have occurred in Victoria. Now I know that seems almost a strange question, and I think I know the answer,,and my thoughts are NO, they would not,, then can someone tell me why, when I check out the NSW Registry office Online Historical Index, that there are two of our Heasman children registered there, one being Ann A Heasman and William R Heasman, both with the mother Jane E and father William Heasman. There is a strange registration number, different to what I am used to seeing. It just seems a really really strange thing,, and I am sure that there is a logical answer for this, one that once I hear the answer, I will be thinking,,, oh silly me,, of course !!!
Aumarire

[cando]

Hi

The history of the NSW BDM's link
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/historyofRegistrysRec.htm

Registry's Records

The Registry's records go back to the first white settlement in the colony of New South Wales in 1788. In those early years the churches assumed responsibility for recording the details of baptisms, burials and marriages which they performed. The Registry has transcriptions of these records.

In 1856 the Government took over the function of recording all births, deaths and marriages from the churches.

The Registry now has over 17 million records of all birth, death and marriage events that occurred in New South Wales.

A similar registration system operates in each Australian State and Territory. Records relating to events which occurred interstate can be traced by inquiring with that state's Registry office.



Early bdm records of Victoria and Qld are also on the NSW site  - part of colony of NSW
See link
http://www.jaunay.com/bdm.html

Cheers
cando

[JAP]

Aumarire,

At that time (1846), Victoria was part of the Colony of NSW.

The Act approving Separation was passed by the British Parliament in 1850 and Victoria actually became a separate colony (the Colony of Victoria) the following year.

That's why these old church records are listed in NSW i.e. when the baptisms took place in St James, Melbourne, that location was actually in the Colony of NSW! (They are now also included in the Victorian BDM indexes - which seems a fairly commonsense decision).

You will notice that the NSW reference number starts with a V.

However - far from all the 'Victorian' (i.e. before Separation) old church records are in the NSW index ...
Someone else might know why some are but not all ...

JAP
PS: I still wonder where that birthplace of Gulgong came from!  (See my post - reply #389).

PPS: (Added later) There is quite an interesting background to the CD of Victoria's Early Church Records at:
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~pioneers/pppg5bn.htm
and
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~pioneers/pppg5g.htm

[aumarire]

Hi Folks,
I knew the very moment that I sent the question, that I would know the answer, and that is exactly what happened. Of course Victoria was part of NSW at that time, all I can say to myself is " wake up Aumarire', and I can't even blame my craziness on the time of the day, it is still early in the evening.

Yes Jap, I also wonder about the place of birth for William Richard being noted in the Wellington Historical Society records as being Gulgong came from. This information came from the Society, when I rang them, I asked them if they could search the old church records, to see if those contained any information, as I explained to the lady concerned that the marriage certificate had virtually no information, and I wanted to know if the church records held any other information. Certainly, in the e-mail, in the way she replied, and the order in which she sent the reply, makes me feel certain that Williams place of birth as Gulgong was  information that she got from the marriage registration. How ever, having said that, I am going to go back to her and ask the specific question, 'where did she get that info from'
Will let you all know the answer when I get it.
Aumarire

[annecaroline]

Hello Everyone,

I am still trying to find Amelia Heasman who married the James Bradley.
I have managed to find James Bradley on the 1841 and 1851 census in England.
In 1851 he was living with his Aunt in Manchester also in the house was a Sarah Yahall sic.
Now I found him marrying in Manchester 1851 to a Sarah Yoxall.
I have found a couple of children being born to them in Melbourne.
One was Beatrice Charlotte born 1863,James gives his age as 36yrs born Derbyshire -occup Sawyer
Previous children listed
Alfred 8yrs
Agnes 5 3/4yrs
Emily 3 1/2yrs
1 son & 1 dau dead.

Emily died in 1875-James listed his occup as Engineer.His signature looks the same as the one on the marriage cert to Amelia.His address is hard to read looks like Banrarie Street.Carlton
I cannot find a birth for Emily her death cert states born in Fitzroy -13yrs  Vic & 2  yrs in NSW.
Now when Beatrice Charlotte marries in 1881 at Ringwood she states both her parents are dead.Permission to marry is given by her guardian Charles F or T Bradley.

I cannot find the 1st wife Sarah dying.c 1865
I cannot find the birth of Emily
James states when marrying Amelia he has 5 children living so there is another child born after Beatrice which I can't find.
I cannot find James dying between 1875 and 1881.
I was hoping maybe some of these children might lead us to Amelia but its not looking that way.
Can any of you ladies have a look at this family I think I have missed something as I only have the vital records for Vic for this time period.
Thanks
Annie