ENDEAN Family

[united]

You two obviously carried on for a while last night - and again this morning - long after I had had to move on to other things ...!
A couple of thoughts occurred to me later - the transcript I saw in the Record Office at Truro is a handwritten one - bound together and obviously quite old.  I cannot now remember if there was a date on this - and if so, I haven't recorded it, but it had obviously been done some considerable time ago.  Presumably - big presumption! - the person/people who did this transcription did it from the original register - that's how old it appears to be.
I also have the CD of Phillimore's transcripts of Cornish marriages and have just done (another) search for Dasparil and variants.  The only marriage to appear as a result of this is - Henry Andeyne and Jone Dasparil, 3 March 1616!
Another presumption - Phillimore must have used the original register, since the preface reads:
NOTE.- A complete record of Baptisms, Marriages and Burials - except for the few years hereunder noted - has been preserved at St. Columb Minor from the year 1560 up to the present time. The First Volume of the registers-a book measuring 12 in, by 8 in. and consisting of 128 leaves of parchment strongly bound in calf gives Baptisms from 1560 to 1715, Marriages from 1560 to 1719 and Burials from 1560 to 1718, The Baptisms and Burials for 1646 are missing, also the Marriages from Dec. 29, 1652, to Sep. 21, 1655, and for the year 1586, when it is recorded that “noe mension is made for want of a minister.” This volume is stained and the writing somewhat faded, but very few names are illegible. From 1560 to 1600 it is apparently a transcript made in the latter year in pursuance of the Injunctions issued in 1597.
The handwritten transcript also contains baptisms and burials, which suggests to me that the transcriber(s) were using the originals, and not just copying from the Phillimore transcript - lots of presumptions here, I know ...!
So - can we assume that two different transcribers, using the original registers, have come up with the name Dasparil ...??
Will we ever know the answer ..??
Incidentally, there were no 'hits' at all for Dassaril in the Phillimore transcripts!

[krisesjoint]

Hi united,

To my knowledge no early transcription was made for St Columb Minor baptisms marriages and burials. As you say an early transcript was made of baptisms 1560-1600. Very tiny writing. Apart from that I know of no other transcript - particularly any listing baptisms, marriages and deaths for this parish.  Are you sure you are not mixing it up? You were probably checking St Columb Major and Newlyn registers on your visit as well. There are early transcripts for both St Columb Major transcribed in 1881 by Mr Arthur Jewers of Births, Deaths and Marriages. (1540-1780) There is also one for Newlyn made in 1899 by Mr Walter Arthur Lancelot Shadwell also of Births Deaths and Marriages. (1559-1715) To my knowledge Phillimores marriages is the only early transcription for these St Columb Minor Marriages. There are as in any transcription errors in this. I have certainly found enough in my travels. In this case I think we all agree those letters are certainly not sp. I just wish we could have come up with a name which meant something 

Chris Kris 

[united]

I cannot now (particularly as you have raised the doubt in my mind!) say with any degree of certainty that there were any marriages recorded in the transcription I viewed - the ones I have recorded in St Columb Minor do appear in Phillimore - but burials are certainly available in this transcript.  I have an interest in several families in the parish and have baptisms recorded as early/late as 1638/9 with a note that they are from the transcript, and burials for my family names up to about 1612 with notes that I need to check the original!  This St Columb Minor book in the Record Office is quite distinctive - you are almost afraid to touch it as is seems to be written on tissue paper.  Meanwhile the mystery continues ...!

[Aussie Webgoddess]

Hi,
I'm also looking for a "missing" Endean in Cornwall who's been one of our major brick walls for a number of years.  We first found William Endean in Devon in Buckland Monachorum in 1820. He is listed as a sojourner & a widow in his marriage to Betsy Rescorla. He is also literate but signs his name as William Dean. In the census data he is always listed as being born in St Agnes around 1785. We always thought of the town St Agnes, but from reading your postings I'm beginning to think it may have been the Parish of St Agnes which would be a much broader area to seach in. On his children's birth records (1820s) he is listed as a labourer but by the 1840's he is a miner, so it's possible that his occupation in Cornwall was as a labourer. There don't appear to be any other Endeans in the Horrabridge/Buckland Monachorum area so there aren't any clues through brothers/sisters etc.
So what we are looking for is a baptism/birth entry for a William Endean b. 1785 in probably the St Agnes Parish & possibly the death of his first wife. One of my (distant) relatives will be travelling to the UK & staying in the St Agnes region shortly. What would be the best use of his time while we actually have someone in the area?
Dianne

[united]

Have you seen this web site - looking at the names, you may well be connected to it ...??
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~endean/
I found it through the Cornwall Family History Society website who post a link through the Family Trees section
http://www.cornwallfhs.com/
I'm afraid I don't know anything about Endeans/Deans in Devon, nor have I connected my Endeans to St Agnes in Cornwall.
If you or your relative is in the Truro/St Agnes region, there are a couple of places I would try - the Cornwall Family History Society has their own library/searchroom - the address is on the link above - and I have always found them very helpful when I have been in Cornwall.  The County Record Office in Truro  - this web address will take your there if you follow the links
http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/
holds the parish registers for St Agnes, and has several transcriptions which are easier to read which you can use as a starting point if the thought of peering at microfiche and hard to read records is daunting ..!
Hope you break down a few brick walls - I'd be interested to know how you get on !

[krisesjoint]

Hi Dianne,

A Big Welcome to RootsChat  

Alas I think you have got me stumped with this chappie. I have been taking a good lookabout and I fear I am not seeing anything helpful 

I am not seeing a William b St Agnes. I checked the census and I note 1841 he listed as yes born in Devon - 1851 clearly St Agness (sic) Cornwall and deceased by 1861 so we don't have a lot to work on. Clearly one of these refs in inaccurate. One born Ladock 1787 is the nearest I can see listed anywhere in Cornwall. (or a couple of Andeans 1782 and 1783 Cuby with Tregony)

I checked St Agnes marriages and see nothing to provide an answer to a 1785 birth. The first Endean marriage is in 1796 John ENDEAN - and there are in 1790 marriages for Richard and Samson INDIAN (all too late for you, and some earlier Indians, but these are too early to be of help to you I am afraid, so it appears his parents were not married there. I looked at burials 1813-1837 and see Deborah in 1825 aged 73 The 1796 marriage is for John = Debora Tyack. If this was her then she was in her fifties at the time of marriage. There is no mention of either being widowed. Besides her we have Ann buried 1817 aged 36 and Mary 1827 aged 73.

A Richard and Ann INDIAN did have children born in St Agnes during the right era, and a John and Elizabeth INDIAN had at least one, but I see no William. It may pay to get in the fiche to your local LDS Library and take a look yourself. The condition of the register may not be too good and you may just spot it youself.

Nothing much apparent re a first marriage either. I can only spot these 1805 -1820

William ANDAIN = Mary Smyth 11 Jan 1806 St Stephens in Brannel
William ENDEAN = Agnes MAY 13 Jun 1818 Cuby with Tregony (They appear in 1841 census)
William ANDEAN = Lydia DEAN 25 Jul 1818 Cuby with Tregony

(In 1841 there is a William and Mary both aged 65 in Withiel and a William aged 55 in with Mary aged 60 in Cuby)

Sorry it is not looking like the first marriage was in Cornwall  

Cheers Kris  

[chewiebeast]

Hi
Query the St Agnes OPC at www.cornwall-opc.org
I'd love to hear back about what she tells you
regards
Damien

[Aussie Webgoddess]

Thanks United, Kris & Damien for the information & suggestions.
Yes http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~endean/ is my website and we'd like to extend it one more step by finding our elusive William. 
The William Endean born in Ladock is the closest we've found as well but I'm presuming that Ladock isn't in the St Agnes Parish. However this William was born to William & Margaret and on doing a search on the LDS site I can only find Endean girls born to a William & Margaret (in addition to William).Catherine 1782 & Nancy 1784, both in St Clement & Elizabeth in 1799 in Ladock. It may be possible to find a married sister close to him in Devon. (I know this sounds like I'm clutching at straws but we have been searching for William for a long time.)
Our William's death certificate also states that he was born in 1785 in St Agnes, so there is this plus the census information which tallies.
I have had someone look at the microfilm for St Agnes & they couldn't find any William Endean for this period but they did say that some of the entries were very hard to read. 
I'll pass the suggestions onto our visiting relative. Are there any other sources I could search in Devon? We have his marriage record & his children's baptism records, the census records & his death certificate. Are there any records of the poor? In the 1860's after William's death his 2 daughters went to the USA with their husbands & the remainder of the family headed to Northumberland to work in the mines. I'm presuming that before they did this that times would have been tough.
Also is it possible to find out where William might be buried? He died on 5th Feb 1859 in Horrabridge, Buckland Monachorum.
Many thanks for the advice,
Dianne

[chewiebeast]

Hi
Your correct that Ladock isn't in St Agnes parish, Ladock os a parish in its own right, I believe it borders St Columb Minor. At a guess I'd say its about 15-20 miles from St Agnes, but thats a real guesstimate!
As for his burial place, If you've visited the Cornwall OPC site I gave you, you'll find links to other OPC schemes for other counties, Devon is one of them, so follow the link from there. The appropriate OPC may also have poor law records to hand so its worth an ask
regards
Damien