help please - Elizabeth Sarah Montague 1886

[bearkat]

The IGI has the following entry for Mary Jane FORCE
born 18 January 1848 baptised 1 March 1848 Porchester
parents  Henry William and Sarah FORCE

Henry William FORCE married Sarah GRUBB 27 June 1831 Porchester

Henry William FORCE born 30 December 1810, baptised 14 April 1811 Porchester
parents William Henry and Martha FORCE

[Richard Knott]

Jun 1865
Charles Edwin Hannay m Alice Bishop

In 1871 Alice had three children (Alice, 1; Charles, 3; Ellen, 6).

In 1881 Alice (junior) is living with her maternal grandmother Maria Bishop. Perhaps both parents had died by then. Or perhaps Charles had run off with Mary Force under an assumed name.

Richard

[bearkat]

- apparently she was very flighty and married several times!

Perhaps they were referring to Elizabeth's mother!

This is one confusing family.

[Richard Knott]

Do these help or confuse?!

Births:

Mar 1875
Evelyne Hannay Montague    Cardiff 11a 280

Mar 1877
Lillian Hannay Montague     Manchester 8d 245


'Normally' I would have said that the names suggested that these were the illegitimate children of a woman called Montague by a man called Hannay. The father does appear to be Charles Hannay but, even given the desire to look respectable, the changes of name are difficult to follow.

At the moment a very convoluted story would have Charles Hannay marrying Alice Bishop in 1865, by whom he had three children. He then left her sometime after 1871, spent time in Cardiff and Manchester between at least 1875 and c1879 with a woman called Montague, before leaving her to live with Mary Force in 1881. At various times he was called Hannay, Force (in 1881) and Montague. My guess is that the 1881 entry is a mistake - possibly caused by Mary calling herself Force and the enumerator assuming that was Charles' name. By 1891 Mary (still presumably Force) was calling herself Mary H(annay) Montague, which seems particularly bizarre.

All very confusing. I tried to find Charles in the 1871 census for Wales but there were no obvious candidates.

Richard

[DebbieG]

Oh well done Richard on finding Evelyns birth I found Lillians but couldn't find Evelyns (or Harrys?)

I have found a possible birth for Charles Edwin Hannay the father

Births Mar 1841   
Hanney  Charles Edwin     Bath  11 58

but can anyone see him on any census other than 1881 and a vague possible in Suffolk in 1871?

Debbie

[DebbieG]

This could be him in 1851

from 1851 Bath Abbey

Margaret Dodd 67  head born cheshire Newton Mon
Charles Hanney 9  Gson
Martha Hanney 7  Gdau
William Hanney 17  Gson
Robert Tayler 23  Lodger

kids born Bath Somerset

Debbie

[Richard Knott]

I think that is him.

There are two candidates on the 1841 census. One is 9 weeks old in Corston, Bath (indexed as Chos) and can be tracked through to 1881 (indexed as Hannsey) in Essex, so is not the right person. The other is in Walcot (HO107/970/2), son of James and Elizabeth Hanny, which is the one you have in 1851.

Richard

[Richard Knott]

1841   Walcot   HO107/970/2
James Hanny, 35+, butcher
Elizabeth Hanny, 35+
James Hanny, 12
William Hanny, 8
Henry Hanny, 6
Charles Hanny, 4m

This is a suitably dysfunctional family (!) as in 1851 James is living away from the family as an unmarried butcher's assistant; Elizabeth is a nurse living with/near Henry; James junior has joined the army; and Charles you have.

In 1861 Martha is still living with her grandmother Margaret Dodd (both with Martha's sister Ellen); but Charles has disappeared.

Richard

[bearkat]

This is a suitably dysfunctional family (!)

LOL