Thomas patrick Kelly

[torbay lady]

Hello, I am Trying to find out where my Grandfather was born.
I have some information I would like verifying.
I have some details which may be my great great Grandfather.
His name was Thomas Patrick Kelly.
I have this information. he was born in Douglas the address of his family was 18 Kingswood Grove. sub registration district J
He was born in 1868
the other family is Elizabeth Kelly Wife, Frances R Kelly Daughter born 1880
Jane Kelly daughter
John Kelly Head
John J kelly son
Thomas P Kelly son born 1868
I would like to know where the family ended up. My Grandfather Owen was in LIverpool when He Married in 1917. Owen was born in 1894
Could someone please shed light on this information.
regards Jean

[CaroleW]

Which census was this info taken from?

Where were they living at that time

What were the other childrens birthplaces?

You say that Thomas Patrick Kelly was your Great Great Grandfather so he must have married and produced your Great Grandfather

Your Great grandfather must have married and produced Owen – so who were Owens parents?

There are 4 Owen Kelly’s b 1894/85 on the England 1901 but none have parents with an IOM connection.  There are no Owen Kelly’s on the 1901 IOM census

If you don't already have his fathers name and this is his marriage, a copy of his marriage cert will give that info plus his fathers occupation

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1917
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
KELLY Owen WORSWICK Louisa Wavertree, Holy Trinity Liverpool 2080WD/3/160

[peckham]

RE THOMAS PATRICK KELLY

1881 ISLE OF MAN CENSUS18 Kingswood Grove, Douglas, Isle of Man
John Kelly abt 1839  Marown, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Head  Builder Master
Elizabeth Kelly abt 1836  Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Wife 
Mary E. Kelly abt 1866  Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Daughter  Assists with Housework
Thomas P. Kelly abt 1868  Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man  Son   Scholar
Robert Kelly abt 1871  Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Son    Scholar
John J. Kelly abt 1875  Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Son   Scholar
Jane E. Kelly abt 1877  Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man
Frances R. Kelly abt 1880  Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Daughter 
Ellen Callan abt 1865  Ramsey, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Servant   General Domestic


1891 ISLE OF MAN CENSUS
45 Alexander  STREET - BUT MIGHT BE - TERRACE, Onchan (Douglas Ward), Isle of Man,
John Kelly abt 1839  Marown, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Head  Builder Master
Elizabeth Kelly abt 1836  Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Wife 
Mary E. Kelly abt 1866  Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Daughter  Stationers Assistant
Thomas P. Kelly abt 1868  Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man  Son   Sorting Clerk Post Office
John J. Kelly abt 1875  Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Son   Plumber
Jane E. Kelly abt 1877  Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man    Scholar
Frances R. Kelly abt 1880  Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Daughter  Scholar
WILLIAM DUNCAN 12 ADOPTED SON born Douglas
NOTE: The son Robert Kelley was not listed at this address he was/would have been 20 years old - perhaps married? will look later.

1901 ISLE OF MAN CENSUS
Address 2 Broadway (Central North), Conchan  Isle of Man   
Isabella Clague abt 1857  Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Head  Given as Single Boarding House keeper
Thomas P Kelly abt 1868  Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Brother-in-law  Post Office Clerk
Elizabeth G Kelly abt 1870  Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Sister 
Harold F Kelly abt 1900  Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Nephew 
John P Kelly abt 1895  Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Nephew     
Annie Harvey abt 1871  Patrick, Isle of Man, Isle of Man    General Servant 
NOTE Thomas is married to Elizabeth G and Harold and John are their children.

Based on your other comments - if Thomas produced OWEN then it apparently was after 1901 and after the family had left the Isle of Man for England (Lancashire?).presumably after he had movedwhen he made a
will look for Thomas’ parents and other siblings and let you know

[CaroleW]

Hi

If Owen married in 1917, he was either very young or he was born before 1901, not after.  Your original message says he was b 1894 so he should be on the 1901 census.  It may be that Owen was the one who moved to Liverpool - not his family.   

Are you sure that Thomas Patrick was your Great Great Grandfather?  If Owen was his son and Owen was your grandfather, then Thomas Patrick was only your Great Grandfather

What documentation do you have that links Owen to Thomas?

[peckham]

I started to have second thoughts about the 1901 Census and who was married to whom, but the following is logical:

Isabella Clague Head  Single 
Thomas P Kelly Brother-in-law
  . . . which suggests he married Isabella’s sister e.g., Elizabeth G.

Elizabeth G Kelly Sister 
. . . sister of Isabella

John P Kelly Nephew     
Harold F Kelly Nephew 
. . . If they are the nephews of Isabella than they have to be the children of her sister or brother ipso facto Elizabeth G. . .  they are Thomas P. Kelly’s children . . . if so Thomas and Elizabeth married by 1894


-----------------------------------

ROBERT KELLY

1891 ISLE OF MAN CENSUS - ROBERT KELLY WAS A SERVANT, I.E., A BAKER
Address Stanley Mount House, Conchan  Isle of Man   
Thos Murray abt 1835  Maughold, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Head  Baker
Robert was still working for the same Master Baker in 1901 - see census below - some of the other people in the houses were different in 1891 to those in 1901. If you want the list send me your email address via a personal message and I will also send you this census sheet.


1901 ISLE OF MAN CENSUS - ROBERT KELLY WAS A BOARDER BUT STILL A BAKER
Address Stanley Mount House, Conchan  Isle of Man   
Thos Murray abt 1835  Maughold, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Head  Baker
Sarah E Murray abt 1853  Santon, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Wife 
Fanny Russell abt 1872  Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Servant  Domestic
Elizabeth Cottier abt 1874  Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Servant  Domestic
Mary Crennan abt 1886  Peel, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Servant  Domestic
George Austin abt 1884  Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Boarder  Baker
Henry Corkill abt 1883  Patrick, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Boarder  Baker
William Costain abt 1886  Arbory, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Boarder  Baker
Robert Kelly abt 1871  Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Boarder  Baker
John Teare abt 1877  Liverpool, England Boarder  Baker

-----------------------------------------
THE REST OF THE FAMILY in 1901
4 (looks like) Laweston Terrace, Conchan  Isle of Man 
John Kelly abt 1839  Marown, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Head  Builder
Elizabeth Kelly abt 1836  Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Wife 
John J. Kelly abt 1875  Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Son  Shipping Clerk
Frances R Kelly abt 1880  Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Daughter 
Isabel Taggart abt 1897  Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Granddaughter 


So we know where the sons Robert and Thomas went to  . . . the only others not accounted for in what I have put together are the daughters Mary E. Kelly and Jane E. Kelly. It is reasonable to anticipate they were both married  . . . after all the Isabel Taggart granddaughter had to come from somewhere!

There is also the question of William Duncan the Adopted Son - why was he adopted . . . and where did his travels take him.

Your search in England / Lancashire is now that much more difficult because the 1901 Census was the last to be published and Thomas Patrick Kelly was still in the Isle of Man in 1901.

[peckham]

I checked the Isle of Man 1901 Census for an OWEN Kelly - nothing
I checked England 1901 Census for an OWEN Kelly born in the Isle of Man - nothing . . . but there are a very large number of individuals living in Lancashire - different locations - who originated in Isle of Man.

None of this helps track Owen but I thought it was worth a try just in case Owen arrived through a different lineage than that which I and CarolW have been looking at.

Having fun yet Carol?

 

[torbay lady]

Hi Peckham
I read all the info and I realise that I put an extra great in, Thomas patrick kelly was my great grandfather.
I got his name from Owen and Louisa's wedding certificate which I have.
It does not list the mother so I did not know who Thomas patrick was married to
Thanks for all your help
regards Jean