Irwin/Irvine and Russell

[tonyhennessey1]

Todays update

I found the death cert for John Russell (illegitimate) b.1864 died 24/04/1867 of Measles.

Mother - Mary Russell - Flax Spinner of Garngad Road, High Church, Glasgow

Nothing new there except to prove the high mortality rate of children at that time.

Tony

[tonyhennessey1]

Hi

Hume24 wrote

A likely entry for Catherine's birth is this one. Rush=Russell, perhaps?

Catherine Lynch Rush
Born: 20th April 1865 High Church, Glasgow
Mother: Mary Rush

I found the birth cert. for this Catherine (Illegitimate) and it proves that it is the correct Mary - obviously the registrar misheard Mary who couldn't read and write. Address is 13 Middleton Street (although I think this should be Place not Street) and mother Mary is, as usual, a Flax Spinner.

That just about completes the set, although I can't find a death for this Catherine who must have died 1871 - 1877 before the birth of the next Catherine.

I'm not sure what to do next about taking this family further back (I can't see the woods for the trees  ) - any advice gratefully received.
 
Tony

[hume]

Wow, you've certainly progressed with the names! It's looking likely that they were to several fathers, rather than just the one James Irving/Irvine. I'm still trying to find James in the 1871 census, but nothing is standing out once again.

The only thing I can think of is trying to track James' sisters' to find out their father's first name and their mother's maiden name. However, I think it will be difficult with all the variations! Either that, or you try to find Ellen's (head of household in 1861) death certificate. 1861 - 1871, aged 60 - 70 in the Glasgow area? I'm afraid I'm not helping that much.

hume24

[tonyhennessey1]

Hi Hume24

you have helped a lot.

A few of your suggestions I have already followed up on but with no luck -  eg. Ellen's death which I can't find. If she owned a house she may have sold up and gone back to Ireland.

I'll make a list of all the things I've done so far and take it from there.

Thanks
Tony

[tonyhennessey1]

Hi all

I'm asking for help again with this search.

After making a lot of progress last time (aided and guided by Hume24) I still haven't a clue where in Ireland my Irwins/Irvines came from originally. I have several possibilities in Antrim but the key to this is finding the name of the husband of Ellen Irvine who is listed in 1861 with her family:-

Residence: 15 College St Back Land, Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Ellen Irvine, f, head, 60, househol[d]er, Ireland
Mary ", f, dau., widow,  30, mill worker, Ireland
James ", m, son, 25, puddler iron foundry, Ireland
Elizabeth ", f, dau., 23, mill worker, Ireland
Catherine Coligand, f, g-dau., 7, Glasgow, Lanark
Mary McCaskill, f, g-dau., 1, -, Glasgow, Lanark

I've hunted high and low for Ellen's death and just can't find it . I'm presuming her death cert. would have her husband's name and her maiden name on it (which would open up a whole new branch in Ireland as well).
Can anybody advise what would be the next best thing after unsuccessfully searching SP records? (I found one in 1888 but she was Scottish and single and in Kirkudbright).

I've also used quite a few credits viewing marriages for Ellen's daughter Elizabeth but they all have different mothers and wrong ages.

Daughter Mary I now believe to be daughter-in-law to Ellen and mother of Catherine Coligand. Catherine's name I found out is McColigan. I have her birth and parents 1851 marriage (James McColigan and Mary Irvine) and her father's death in 1856. Catherine ended up in the City poorhouse through 1871 and 1881. Unfortunately Mary's marriage 'cert'. from 1851 gives very little information.

Any help or advice would be gratefully accepted.

Thanks
 
Tony

[gaucho]

Hi Tony,
not many Irvines in 10 year age and death range died in Glasgow. I take it you've tried all these:
IRVINE   AGNES           F   64   SPRINGBURN   GLASGOW CITY/LANARK   622/02 0182      
1869   IRVINE   AGNES           F   64   PARTICK   GLASGOW CITY/LANARK   646/02 0057   
1871   IRVINE   ANN       MCINALLY   F   71   SHETTLESTON   GLASGOW CITY/LANARK   622/03 0130   
1861   IRVINE   ELIZA ANN   ADAMS   WHITESIDE   F   57   ANDERSTON   GLASGOW CITY/LANARK   644/08 0017   
1861   IRVINE   ELIZABETH   IRVINE   FAULDS   F   63   SPRINGBURN   GLASGOW CITY/LANARK   622/02 0241   
1863   IRVINE   JANE       DUNLOP   F   62   GLASGOW CENTRAL DISTRICT   GLASGOW CITY/LANARK   644/01 1928   
1870   IRVINE   JANE       JACKSON   F   71   CALTON   GLASGOW CITY/LANARK   644/04 1044   
1864   IRVINE   JANET   -----   SMITH   F   62   HIGH CHURCH   GLASGOW CITY/LANARK   644/02 0758   
1871   IRVINE   MARGARET           F   73   MILTON   GLASGOW CITY/LANARK   644/07 0556   
1867   IRVINE   MARY       LECKIE   F   62   TRADESTON   GLASGOW CITY/LANARK   644/09 0177   
1863   IRVINE   MARY ANN   HUTTON   BARR   F   58   MILTON   GLASGOW CITY/LANARK   644/07 0192   
1869   IRVINE   SARAH       MCKECHNIE   F   65   GLASGOW CENTRAL DISTRICT   GLASGOW CITY/LANARK   644/01 2415   
1871   IRVINE   SARAH       MCKIE MCNEIL   F   71   GLASGOW CENTRAL DISTRICT   GLASGOW CITY/LANARK   644/01 1430   


Should point out that people living in Middleton Place did not own their houses- it was a by word for slum housing (speaking as one who had many family members born and brought up there  )
may be worth contacting the archivist at the Mitchell library about the poor house connection. They keep the archives and there may be more info in these than you think!
Good luck,
John

[tonyhennessey1]

Hi John
thanks for replying .

I had already seen the list of Irvines before but was obviously put off using too many credits especially as they were all the wrong first names and wrong areas. None of the names are used by James' family later on (Ellen is). Actually Elizabeth is Ellen's daughter's name  so I may give that a shot if all else fails. I did view Janet because she had the right age and area (High Church). I'm still hoping that SP just haven't got her. Does anybody have experiences of their missing relatives from SP deaths during this time period?

Re: Middleton Place - I knew that Mary Russell lived in all of the slums (I've got a brilliant photo I found in a search of her 'house' in High Street from 1861 - luxurious it ain't!   ).

I'll take your advice about the Poor House archivists and see if I can pick up anything useful if Ellen ever wound up there . I'm still convinced she owned a house in College St.. Why else is she down as Householder?  Nobody else in the street has that as an occupation. I would also find it a bit weird that James her son would let his ould ma rot away in one of those places.

Cheers John
 
Tony