Irwin/Irvine and Russell

[tonyhennessey1]

Hi
Latest news.
I gambled and bought a look at the 1868 marriage of Elizabeth Irvine to Andrew Gray.
At first I thought I was on to a winner with the address being College Street as in 1861.
Her occupation was good too - worker in a Linen factory.

Then I found ....
Age 19 instead of 29/30.
Mother Margaret instead of Ellen. (for the record - father William a Cotton weaver)

They may be related to the other Irvines but it didn't help me.

 
Tony

[tonyhennessey1]

Hi all
Latest update.
I found a death cert. for James Irving Russell – August 1864 aged 11 months.
His Mother Mary (still a Flax Mill Spinner) is now living at 12 or 13 Middleton Place, Glasgow.

(Modified Middleton Street to Middleton Place)

I still can’t find Mary Russell or James Irvine on the 1871 census. They must be there somewhere.

Thanks
 
Tony

[hume]

Hi Tony,

I've just gave the census a fresh look and still can't see them. Have you gave Ellen (born 1872)'s birth certificate a look, to see if it opens up any more possibilities?

hume24

[tonyhennessey1]

Hi Hume24

I had a look this morning and there's not too much to be learnt.
Ellen is illegitimate. Mary's occupation is Flax Mill Worker.
The address is 126 Garngad Road, Glasgow - High Church District (which I can't find on the map).

(Modified - apparently Garngad Road was renamed Royston Road in 1942)

Can I ask you, where did you get the original dates of birth for the Russell family?

Thanks
 
Tony

[tonyhennessey1]

Hi

I found Mary Russell in the 1871 census.

At 126 Garngad Rd, 2D Bkland, Glasgow

Mary Russell 27, b.1844 Glasgow, Head - factory worker
Mary Russell 36, b.1835 Hogganfield, Lanarkshire,  boarder - factory worker
Margaret Russell 26, b.1845 Glasgow, Sister - no occupation given
Catherine Lynch 6, b. 1865 Glasgow, Daughter
Robert Owen 4, b.1867 Glasgow, Son

(Modified - Garngad Road extends eastwards to Hogganfield)
Who said there wasn't too much to be learnt from Ellen's birth cert

So... do we think that there are a whole rake of fathers for these children - especially now with two of them having different surnames to Irwin/Irvine/Irving and even Russell?

Confused but happy to have more information than I had.

 
Tony

[hume]

Hi Tony,

What a great find. It shows how much one certificate can tell us. I'm assuming we're taking the 27-year-old as your Mary? I think it is, given son Robert's age and birthplace. A likely entry for Catherine's birth is this one. Rush=Russell, perhaps?

Catherine Lynch Rush
Born: 20th April 1865 High Church, Glasgow
Mother: Mary Rush

I got this and the other births from the IGI (International Genealogical Index) (link here). Always try a few combinations, especially with names.

hume24

[tonyhennessey1]

Hi Hume 24
thanks for that info. about the IGI.  I have used it a few times but it was ages ago and I had no success at all. I don't think it works too well for Irish Ancestry. I'll remember it next time I'm looking though.

In answer to your question, yes I am taking the 27 year old as my Mary. This age still fits in with her age for the 1861. The other Mary is too old at 35. Obviously the address is a match too.

Now, regarding the children of Mary Russell. Does anyone have an opinion regarding a father. I was quite happy to see the first child, James Irving Russell to have his dad's first name and Irving used as an approximation of his surname. To see two other children with the names Lynch and Owen as middle names is confusing and, to be honest, quite shocking if they have different fathers. It may be possible that the name Irwen has been misheard as Owen for Robert but I can't understand Lynch.

Looking at the 1851 census there is a family of Russells living in the Gorbals with a Mary and sister Margaret that appear to be the same family. There are a couple of other families but they don't meet the criteria of Glasgow births for the two girls.
In 1861 there are a few possibilities for both girls living separately but none together, as far as I can see.

In 1871 there are a couple of James Irvines living in lodgings but none that I can find as an Iron Puddler. The rest of his family from 1861 seem to have disappeared by 1871 too.

Thanks again for the IGI info. and for Catherine's details. 

I'll have another search later today and keep you posted.

 
Tony

[tonyhennessey1]

Hi all
latest update.

I found a death cert. for Samuel Duncan Russell (Illegitimate) b1874 who sadly died after 8 mths 12/11/1874 in the district of High Church.

Mary Russell - mother, living at 15, River Street, Blochavin (), Glasgow.

The best information on this is that her father's occupation is given - that of IRON PUDDLER - the same as James Irwin/Irvine.

(Added later - I eventually found River Street on an old map. Renamed SHORE STREET. Not the best place in Glasgow to live - right next to the Corporation Sewage Works on one side and the Refuse dispatch Works on the other. How any of them survived is a miracle).

On with the hunt....


 
Tony

[tonyhennessey1]

Hi me again

A strange update.

I was having a closer look at the cert. for Samuel when I noticed the entry above was the same address.

Another child - John Ferguson Russell (Illegitimate) aged 1 year died of Convulsion Dentition () 11/11/1874.

Mother was Christina Russell a Bleachfield Worker.

Samuel, by the way, had died of Inflamation of Lungs.

I wonder how Christina and Mary were related.

 
Tony