New member question - Knights

[JohnEldridge435]

Hi -
I would welcome any advice on this.
I have progressed well in researching my family but have hit a brick wall with my Gt Grandfather.
He was William Henry Knights, from his marriage and death certificate I estimate his DOB as being about 1875 and his father being William. Occupation is given as an Electrician (marriage) and telephone instrument maker (death).
I know he lived around the Wilesden / Harrow areas but am not sure where he was born.

He married my Gt Grandmother Jeane Tramasuer but separated after about 10 years. At his funeral his daughter, my Grandmother, told me two women attended the funeral each with similarly named children claiming to be his wife.

To date I have been unable to find a record of his birth or confirm him on the census records.

I am considering the question that he may have given false details to avoid the issue of bigamy. This is the first time that I have encountered this type of problem and am conscious that I may be missing the obvious.

Any advice on how to resolve would be very welcome !

Thanks

John

[Barbara F]

Hello John and welcome to Rootschat.

Do you have an occupation for William Henry's father?  When and where did William Henry marry?

Barbara

[JohnEldridge435]

Hi Barbara -

Thanks for the reply, no I don't have an occupation for William the father.

Details of the marriage are 14/10/1901 at Parish Church of St Leonard, Shoreditch, London. On the certificate both Jeanne and William Henry are both shown as living at the same address in Hagerston, London.

John

[Barbara F]

I will have a look in the censuses but we don't have much to go on!
So, I presume, William (senior) was recorded as deceased on the marriage certificate?  Do the witnesses help at all or are they both from Jeanne's family?  I have found her in 1901 but assume you already have this - if not I will give you the details.

Barbara

[JohnEldridge435]

Barbara -

Yes William is shown as deceased, I havent explored the witnesses ?

Re the 1901 I have searched that several times and have not been able to find either of them, if you have found Jeanne then thanks and how?!

John

[jorose]

Hmm - had a look at freebmd for Willesden, I can see a Joseph W. Knights in 1912, obviously one of yours (mother's name given as Tramaseur) - and then there's also a marriage in that area in 1915 for William Knights and Margaret Naylor, and a child born in 1915 to them under the surname Knight.

[Barbara F]

Well John, this looks like Jeanne.  Surname transcribed as Framasew.

71 Queens Road, St Leonard Shoreditch
Gustave Tramasaur Head M 50 Bag Partmanteau Maker b Belgium Brussels
Jeanne Dau Single 22 Machinist b Belgium Brussels
Bert Son 12 b Essex Forest Gate
Agustine Hoole Son 11 b Essex Manor Park

Hope I have transcribed it correctly.  The Ref is RG13 278 f 150.

As to how I found it ....... Can't quite remember why or how but I worked out that the surname was Belgian.  I then searched for a Jeanne b Belgium.  There are not many results and the one in Shoreditch stood out.

William Henry may have lied about the name of his father which is why we may not be able to find the 2 William's together.  This was very common if the bridegroom wanted to hide illegitimacy.  On the other hand, his father could have died when he was young and mother remarried.  In this case William could be lurking under the wrong surname.

Can you tell me the names of the witnesses please in case these may help with the identification od William Henry?

Barbara

[JohnEldridge435]

Barbara -

Thanks, the witnesses were:

Henry Wilton and Mary Ann White.

Its interesting you say illegitimacy, the only possible that I have found is:

Dwelling:   The Causeway
   Census Place:   Therfield, Hertford, England
   Source:   FHL Film 1341344     PRO Ref RG11    Piece 1412    Folio 131    Page 15
   Marr   Age   Sex   Birthplace
Sarah KNIGHTS   W   54    F   Therfield, Hertford, England
   Rel:   Head
   Occ:   Charwoman
Joseph KNIGHTS   U   21    M   Therfield, Hertford, England
   Rel:   Son
   Occ:   Ag Lab
Emily KNIGHTS       14    F   Therfield, Hertford, England
   Rel:   Daur
   Occ:   Ag Lab
William KNIGHTS       7    M   London, London, Middlesex, England
   Rel:   G Son
   Occ:   Scholar
Jesse JONES   U   40    M   Kelshall, Hertford, England
   Rel:   Lodger Boarder
   Occ:   Rat Catcher

If this is him and he was illegitimate it might explain why his birth wasn't registered? How, with your experience, can I establish if this is the William I am looking for?

Thanks for your help on this.

John

[Barbara F]

Hello John
Our problem here is that we have a William Knights (possible middle name Henry) born about 1875 and that is it!  I say possible middle name Henry as I noticed that he did not use a middle name when he married.
Knights is not a particularly unusual name and it is quite likely to be confused with Knight which is even more popular.
The most distinctive thing about William is his occupation but I have had no luck so far in finding a William in 1901 who is anything similar to an electrician.
I think it would be worth trying to follow through the William you found in 1881 and checking on the background to this Knights family from Herts.
Also worth trying to find the witnesses in the 1901 census in case they are related in some way.
You mention that William may have had 2 families.  Any idea as to whether Jeanne was his first or second "wife".
Who registered William's death?
I have to go out now but more later.

Barbara