Help with a Mystery

[KathMc]

Now that was a big tease, wasn't it?  Here's my mystery:

I have just received a transcription of passenger records for some ancestors of mine:

Western Australia Genealogical Society  Passenger arrivals in Western Australia 1839 to 1890
 Departed from London on Chollerton arr. Fremantle 24/03/87
 
Passenger                            Remarks
Hayes, Walter Master            With Agnes  Acc503
  ''       Hannah Mrs                Mrs John     Acc503
   ''      John Junior                  Acc503
   ''      Mary, Miss                 Daughter of John Acc503
   ''      Clara, Miss                 With Agnes   Acc503
  ''       Timothy, Master          With Agnes  Acc503
   ''      MInnie, Miss               Daughter of John Acc503
  ""     Agnes, Mrs                 and family Acc503
  ""     John, Mr                      and family  Acc503
  ''      Margaret                      Daughter of John Acc503

John and Hannah are the parents. Mrs. Agnes Hayes is really Miss and is 16 years old. She is John and Hannah's oldest daughter. John Jr, Minnie, Mary, and Margaret are their other children. Now the dilemma: I have no idea who Timothy, Clara and Walter are, how old they are, who they belong to. I can't believe Agnes has 3 illegitimate kids at the age of 16. And I have not found them with the family in Penkridge, Staffordshire before this. John has 2 brothers I can't account for: Michael (b. Ireland @1845) and George (b. Penkridge 1859). The family came to England shortly after Michael's birth, were in Liverpool for a period (where John was born) and then settled in Penkridge.

I haven't actually seen the passenger list, just this transcription. I searched online but couldn't find it myself. I found, in searching the BMDs, a Timothy (b. 1872), Walter (b. 1884) and two Clara's (one b. 1876 and one 1879) in West Derby, Lancs, but couldn't find on the 1881 census, so am not sure if they are the same kids and who their parents are.

I need some direction for this one. As I said, I haven't seen the actual passenger list and wonder if they couldn't be kids in the care of Agnes on the ship and the name is just wrong here? Could I be wrong and Agnes could possibly have 3 illegitimate children at the age of 16? And if they are the children of either Michael or George, are their parents dead or did they go to Australia earlier and John and Hannah brought the kids at a later date?

HELP please.

Kath

[meles]

Children of a deceased (or even living) sibling, perhaps?

meles

[KathMc]

That's is what I am thinking/hoping, but would be a sibling's of John Sr. I can't seem to find those two anywhere (Michael and George). I am just not sure what direction to go in now, after checking the 1881 census and BMDs. I did check some online Australian records, but ... oh, I need fresh eyes. It is probably right in front of me what I should do.  I don't know what happened to the three mystery children once they arrived in Australia, but I don't think John and Hannah raised them.

Kath

[meles]

Kath

Can you tell us more?

Perhaps list the parents, with dob and places of birth, and the children with what you do know.

Then the odd ones out.

Then we can scour for what we can find out. But I tried to look, and found I'm missing some pretty essential info!

meles

[Richard Knott]

1881  RG11/2784
Cannock, Staffs
John Hayes, 33, coalminer, b Liverpool
Hannah Hayes, 38, wife, b Bednall, Staffs
Agnes Jane Hayes, 9, dau, b Pye Green
Willm James, 5, b PG
Minnie Hayes, 3, dau, b PG
Caroline Hodson, 28, sister-in-law, dressmaker, b Milford, Staffs
John Hayes, 7, son, b PG
Mary Hayes, 1, dau, b PG

1871  Teddedley Hay, Staffs
James Hayes, 50, ag lab, b Ireland
Margaret Hayes, 52, b Ireland
John Hayes, 22, son, lab in coal work, b Liverpool
James Hayes, 19, garden lab, b Pemkridge
George Hayes, 11, b Huntingdon, Staffs

Richard

[Gadget]

Hi Kath

it might be worth posting on the emigrants to Australia board. There are some good searchers there who might be able to trace them via marriage/death records and get their parents names for you.

Gadget 

[meles]

Oh! That was unexpected! The ages are all over the place.

Richard - Thanks

I can see the difficulty now, Kath.

meles

[Gadget]

Any sign of Timothy, Walter and Clara 

Gadget

[Gadget]

Poss for Timothy, b. 1872 on the 1881:

11 Mazzine Street, West Derby

Timothy J Hayes, 39, blacksmith, b. Liverpool
Elizabeth, 38, b. Lancaster
George, 14, Boilermker app, b. Liverpool
Elizabeth, 11, b. Liverpool
Timothy, 9, b. Liverpool
Sarah, 7, b. Liverpool
William, 4, b. Liverpool
Barbara, 2, b. Liverpool
William, boarder, 31, quay carter, b. Liverpool
Robert Bale, boarder, 40, boiler maker, b. Lancaster