Author Topic: Annan - an elusive seaman  (Read 28802 times)

Offline Fear na mara

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Re: Annan - an elusive seaman
« Reply #27 on: Thursday 06 December 07 00:03 GMT (UK) »
As Bill McLaren used to say:there was rejoicing in the valleys, when I displayed the results of Kenjo's research to my mother and the assembled clan. All the revelations came as a great surprise and there is great impatience for the next chapter of the story.
While I was away, Kenjo has been racing on digging up the ancestors with the speed of a JCB and now, instead of an early night after my travels, I am reading wills. Swathes of the work are confirmed by the text of Joseph's will though I am having some difficulty sorting out who is who. John Elliot (Mariner) married Ann ( Shannon), his brother Joseph Elliot married Ann (mcMillan) and John's son Joseph married Ann (Smith ?) Now I find Joseph talking about his "putative"son Andrew - I'm no too sure I like the sound of that. Interesting though to note that Joseph has shares in a ship - modest but he has them.

Back now to read Isabella's will - then bed before the dawn chorus.
Elliot,  Baverstock,  Shennan, Glover, Radcliffe

Offline kenjo

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Re: Annan - an elusive seaman
« Reply #28 on: Thursday 06 December 07 12:25 GMT (UK) »
Ah ...Fear na mara,
You have the Wills,    that is great.....
we will wait and see what you wish to share with us now.....and if you need anymore help...
It has been wonderful, to contribute to this story...of yours.
take your time ..
JO
;)
Pattillo, Connon, Shand, Mackie, Hickey, Brooks, Ryan.

Offline Fear na mara

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Re: Annan - an elusive seaman
« Reply #29 on: Thursday 06 December 07 14:05 GMT (UK) »
The Wills and the Wedding
Isabella’s will was “proved” on  6th Oct 1899 following her death on 12th May of that year.  This confirms that she is the widow of Andrew Irving, mason in Annan ( and brother of Cap’n John). That the Irvings lived at 7 BackLady Street, Annan but owned other cottages there.
She nominates the minister, Reverend James Alexander Crichton DD, as the executor of her will. Total amount of personal estate which is made up of income received from investments and trusts comes to £560 – but the assets; cottages and shares, remain in the Irving trust.
She leaves the entire residue, after Inland Revenue and proper expenses, to be divided between two of her nieces, Mrs Helen Elliot / Gardiner and Sarah Margaret Elliot.
Provision for the premature death of the beneficiaries indicates that there are other nieces and nephews who might have benefited but these two are the favoured pair. Jo was absolutely right about the bond between isabella and Margaret and the quality of the relationship with the Minister. So, it is not just the skill of tracking and extraction but the gift of sensing the life behind the data.
Sarah and Edward  marriage
This wee snippet sent me diving back to my bad-hits file.
I thought I had found a John in this Elliot familiy in Annan. Wrong – but there is Sarah’s husband Edward from the clan of blacksmiths.
In 1841 census George Elliot, 50, Blacksmith and his wife Janet are living on Watch Hill, Annan, with children Thomas (20), James (15), George (10) and John (2)
I thought  a two year old was a bit optimistic for a 50 year old.
In the same year Thomas Elliot, 55, Blacksmith was living at PORT Street ( remember this is the location of the Manse where Isabella, and later Sarah, would spend quite a time as servants. Thomas does not seem to have a wife but has children, Sarah, John, Helen, Thomas and Mary.
In the 1851 census, George, now 61,has moved to 36 North Street, Annan, given up Blacksmithing  and become a Miller. His son, John, who was 2 years old in 1841 – has aged miraculously and is now 34. He is a farmer of 34 acres and a Miller, another son, William, aged 29 is also a Miller and little George, now aged 23, is an apprentice Miller. But son James, now 27 is a Master Blacksmith. The household is completed by two servants and a nephew, John Proudfoot, son of the Mason, who lived next door.
By 1881 census, the farming/Milling side have cleared out of the house in North Street, leaving son James, the master Blacksmith, now 57, and his wife Jannet, 47.(born Cummertrees). He is employing three of his sons as blacksmiths; Edward (14), James (26) and William (20)
The “baby” blacksmith, Edward, is the man who marries Sarah Margaret.
The two Eliot blacksmiths of the 1841 census came from Canonbie, where their father had been a blacksmith.
Back to a wee bit of hacking on Joseph's will
A bientot,

Elliot,  Baverstock,  Shennan, Glover, Radcliffe

Offline kenjo

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Re: Annan - an elusive seaman
« Reply #30 on: Thursday 06 December 07 21:15 GMT (UK) »
Hi E,
So pleased you have told us more ...
I wonder if Helen...Elliot / Gardiner....is John (the Captain) and Ann Shennan's child..

Remember in the 1871c...there was an Ellen, born England. living with Isabella and her husband.

There was a gap in births for Ann Shennan...so Ann may have visited England after having Joseph...and before having Sarah Margaret.

Anyway the only answer is to buy the Marriage of....David Gardiner and Helen Elliot...Annan. 1890.
For the Sea Captain has most likely another child...being Helen..

Another thing I have noticed ...is the apparent devotion to  the  women who raise the children.
These girls haven't been promiscuous.....yet married late...right after their mother died...and in Sarah Margaret's case...when her Aunt died.
Have the men they married ......waited in the wings for their sweethearts to finally agree to marriage.....Is this another clue to the love and respect these women had for their family..

Jo


I just thought I should look for the Gardiner Family in the 1901c.

7 Scott St, Annan.
David Gardiner, Head,  36yrs, Journeyman Tailor, born Ruthwell, Dumfries.
Helen Gardiner,  37yrs, England
John Elliot Gardiner, son, 9yrs, Annan
David Gardiner, son, 5yrs, Annan

It is looking good.....


Helen  Gardiner ...or Elliot died 1925 Annan.

and
John Elliot Gardiner married Agnes Jane Wilson....1926...Annan..
Pattillo, Connon, Shand, Mackie, Hickey, Brooks, Ryan.


Offline Fear na mara

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Re: Annan - an elusive seaman
« Reply #31 on: Sunday 09 December 07 21:53 GMT (UK) »
Once again Jo’s sure intuition and forensic eye spots the clues and swoops on the next layer of the family. Helen’s marriage to David Gardiner pushes us forward but I notice that there is no detail of David Gardiner’s father on the marriage certificate.
But we have their son, aged 34, John Elliot Gardiner,  grocer’s assistant and even his marriage in 1926 in the Erskine United Free Church of Scotland to fisherman’s daughter, Agnes Wilson, who has been a tailor’s machinist in Annan –The Gardiner, Tailor and Clothier business perhaps.
Joseph Elliot (Cap’n John’s brother) moved down to Egremont in Cumberland where he – late as usual-  married Ann McMillan. And it was while at Moor Row that they prepared their wills.
Joseph died 11/01/1899 leaving the income from his investments to his wife and after her death to his sister Isabella. Jo’s feelings about Isabella are confirmed again here – as Joseph had a number of relatives to whom he might bequeath. We learn that he owns a couple of cottages in Annan and has been receiving rent – but his other investments are poor, his ship shares having declined in value and his “loan” looking like a forlorn hope, reduced to 2/6 in the £.
The surprise is that he leaves ½ his freeholds – in the fullness of time- to his “putative” son Andrew, who is a Clerk at Rowanburn Colliery, Canonbie. To my innocent mind putative son suggests one not listed in the regular family.
I looked at the 1901 census - 13 Watchhill, Canonbie         
Elizabeth Scott,  Head   M   66   Gamekeeper's wife  born  Dum. Canonbie   
Andrew Elliot,  son,  S,  44,  Clerk at Colliery, born Dum. Canonbie   
Now how do I interpret that ?
Elliot,  Baverstock,  Shennan, Glover, Radcliffe

Offline kenjo

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Re: Annan - an elusive seaman
« Reply #32 on: Monday 10 December 07 06:48 GMT (UK) »
Hi Fear na mara,

This is a little tricky....{I must add I hadn't realised that that Elizabeth Scott ...said in the 1901c that she was a game keepers wife......untill I had posted this ....how dumb am I }
In the 1891 census.   same address as the 1901c
Watchhill Canonbie...

Andrew Elliot, Head, 35yrs, Clerk, Canonbie.
Elizabeth Scott. mother, 55 yrs, Canonbie....

I looked for a birth of an Andrew...with Elizabeth Scott...as mother..
the only suitable ones were...an Andrew Scott born 21/7/1855 Stow Midlothan..with only the mother listed ....Betsy Scott.
the other one was
Andrew Scott 23/5/1857 Dryfesdale Dumfries...to a married couple....

The first one was a possible....sort of...{but dismiss}

anyway I looked up the
1861Census
Watchhill, Canonbie

Jane Armstrong, Head, 67yrs, Canonbie.
Mary Armstrong dau, 43yrs, Farm Labourer.
Andrew Elliot, grandson,  5yrs, Canonbie....

So with this info....Andrew Elliot's mother should be Elizabeth Armstrong..
and there is an
Andrew Armstrong born 22/1/1856 ..Canonbie...mother Elizabeth Armstrong.
so Andrew was illegitamate....but his mother told him who his father was and so took up his fathers name....and would have been financially supported...most likely.

Now this is where it does get tricky....and this is my interpretation...I could be wrong though.

Elizabeth Armstrong married Adam Scott.26/5/1865 Westerkirk....
(her father Andrew Armstrong and mother Janet Murry)...(this could be a submission).

This couple had 3 children.
Elizabeth Scott. 27/3/1866 Westerkirk.dumfries.
Gideon Scott. 11 /9 /1867, Westerkirk.
Adam Scott. 25/5/1870/ Moffat.

Adam Scott and Elizabeth are in Moffat..in the 1871c with Adam...

Gideon Scott 3yrs, is staying with his grandparents Gideon and Elizabeth Scott
 at Crooks, Westerkirk..

Now back to Andrew Elliot..
In the
1871c
He is still at
Watchhill.
Mary Armstrong. Head, 53yrs, Ag lab. canonbie.
Andrew Elliot...nephew, 15yrs, scholar. canonbie..

1881c..
the family have moved to Deer Park House,  Inveraray, Argyll.
Adam and Elizabeth Scott and Gideon and Adam..and 2 servants.

Back at Watchhill.
Mary Armstrong, Head, 64yrs, House keeper.
Andrew Elliot, nephew, Clerk at Collery,
Thomas Farish, boarder, 22yrs, draper, Half Morton.
Jamima Lorrain, niece, 11yrs, Caanonbie.

 Elizabeth Scott returned to Watchhill. and is living with Andrew Elliot.
I wonder if Mary had recently passed...

Gideon Scott is still over at Argyll...I will have to look further for Adam Scott now that I realise he was still alive in the 1901c.

modified..

In the 1891c and 1901c Gideon Scott is still in Argyll...he is a Clerk for the Estate Factor and is married with children in the 1901c.
1891c
Adam Scott is visiting at Crooks farm ....where there are a lot of Armstrongs...
1901 C
Adam Scott is at William Park's home --his brother -in- law address Cruie....Eskdalemuir. Dumfries...
NB....in the 1861c Adam birth place has been transcribed as England...but it is Langholm...Dumfries.

So even though Adam Scott isn't with his wife in 2 census, it really doesn't mean anything negative...he could be just away both nights the Census was taken..


regards,
Jo
Pattillo, Connon, Shand, Mackie, Hickey, Brooks, Ryan.

Offline kenjo

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Re: Annan - an elusive seaman
« Reply #33 on: Monday 10 December 07 09:50 GMT (UK) »
I have altered the previous post considerably..
Pattillo, Connon, Shand, Mackie, Hickey, Brooks, Ryan.

Offline lesleyhannah

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Re: Annan - an elusive seaman
« Reply #34 on: Monday 10 December 07 10:09 GMT (UK) »
This has been a fascinating thread . . . every bit as good as many of the Who do you think you are episodes.

I'm really impressed with the work Kenjo's done. Wish all brick walls could end like this!

Offline Fear na mara

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Re: Annan - an elusive seaman
« Reply #35 on: Tuesday 11 December 07 01:19 GMT (UK) »
There are many criminals sleeping happily in their beds safe in the knowledge that Jo is not heading up the criminal investigation service in OZ – well, perhaps you are. You have kept the pace up – never less than a canter – and I am left mesmerised at the sure footed denouement.
And you have made it as clear as crystal: we have two families in parallel. Andrew, the “putative” and bachelor, living with his Aunt Mary at Watchhill, Canonbie. Andrew’s birth mother and husband Adam Scott, move north up the Esk valley, beyond Adam’s birthplace of Langholm, and eventually end up in the Highlands. After 35 years, mother and son are back together in Canonbie.
From earlier, we have Joseph at home in Half Morton with his mother in ’51. He has his liaison with Elizabeth Armstrong before he is 20 and the baby, Andrew, is born in 1856. Six years later, he is recorded as a sawyer, while he is a lodger, unmarried, with McVanes, the grocers in Castle Douglas, a fair distance from Canonbie. By ’71 he has moved to England to join his brother, he is still unmarried and a joiner. His elder brother, Andrew has been in the Whitehaven area since 1855. It would be nice to think that Jo is right that he may have been supporting his child. By 1881, Joseph is married to Ann (McMillan) Elliot, his putative son now being 25 and earning his own living. At the same time, his nephew Joseph is living with the late Andrew’s family and is working as a grocer. The Elliot’s of the remote parish of Half Morton now have a much wider territory from the lake District up to Argyll.

There are few remaining loose ends – but one in particular will not lie down. Captain John took his first command, the Yuca, a one year old barque, built at Workington, just a few months before his son, Joseph was born. For four years he was both Captain and also consignee. His remuneration would not have been insignificant. His American voyages on the Empire Queen, beginning weeks after the birth of daughter, Helen and his final two and a half years in the China Seas would have provided a handsome income also. But there is no trace of a will. Did any of Joseph’s and Isabella’s money came from John ? Joseph was not an astute investor and even if the reference in the Trade Directory for Cumberland, “the principal landowners of the township [of Oughterside] are F.L.B.Dykes, Sir Wilfrid Lawson, Joseph Elliot and John James. “ refers to our Joseph, I cannot see Joseph the sawyer/joiner generating that kind of capital.
Elliot,  Baverstock,  Shennan, Glover, Radcliffe