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look up please

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Author Topic: Newcastle look up please - Presbyterian  (Read 3112 times)

Offline Michael Dixon

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Re: Newcastle look up please - Presbyterian
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 28 November 07 22:27 GMT (UK) »

Let me stick my neb in here !

Looking at the Whillance folk down through the censuses, I think you aqre banking on a Cornelius who might not have existed.

To cut to the chase ... today I saw the baptism of Robert Dawson Whillance, 9 Dec 1849, son of ROBERT , flax dresser, and Elizabeth Whillance of Shield Field, All Saints 
 Shieldfield was/is an area to the east of the centre of city of Newcastle, lying within the Parish ( Anglican) of All Saints)

Bur annotated on the record against Robert senior's name was the word "dec"... which I took to be abbreviation for deceased.

The Census 1841 (ref 846/1 24-13) Lime Street, Byker, Newcastle, Shows Michael and Elizabeth Whillance, both 45 years. From reading other info, I take this couple to be Michael and Elizabeth nee Hall.

I saw the record of their marriage in St Mary's, Gateshead.
 9th Jan 1814. Although they  were likely to be Presbyterians, they married in Gateshead Parish Church, which was Anglican/Church of England ( The law of the land, England/Wales, laid down that the only legal way to marry was in a Church of England... but baptisms in own church was permitted... law withdrawn 1844)

 Also in the household was 20 yr old Robert a FLAX DRESSER.
Mary 25 John 14 ( who became a joiner and died in Leeds aged 60 in 1888 and had a second name of Dawson) and Margaret 10.

So it seems likely that Robert the flax dresser married Elizabeth,( you say Calston) native of Gateshead, but he died young, before C1851.

Also on C1841 (846/6 35-10) at East Ballast Hills (in area of All Saints parish) is a newly-married couple, Cornelius Whillance and Ann nee Coatsworth, native of Newcastle.

 I might guess that c20 yr old joiner Cornelius was the son of Michael , joiner, and Elizabeth  Whillance, nee Hall.

The widow Elizabeth, nee Calston... her family did not spread to Tynemouth area in Northumberland. Her siblings-in law, Cornelius and Ann nee Coatsworth did move to Tynemouth area, but moved back into Newcastle area circa 1880.


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On to the bit about a Whillance been a doctor ???

It seems unlikely that Elizabeth nee Calston would marry a doctor and then on his death become a " pauper", as she was classified on C1851 (ref 2407-76-24), later a lodging house keeper....

That leads to her long term lodger John B Gregson ( I think the B was for BRUMWELL.. from his death registration in Gateshead. He was in Elizabeth's household from Census 1851 up to his death a few months after she died.

Now back to  Census 1841 in Westgate St, Newcastle
(ref 848/6 18-29) This Gregson household included 50 yr old Jane, and a 35 yr old John Gregson , occupation = Ind for Indepentent. Also in h/h was 30 yr old Henry Gregson a "surgeon" ????

I have seen info somewhere, about an Australian soldier of WW1  called Whillance with Gregson as a middle name ??

Phew
Michael Dixon
Newcastle



Names.

GALLAGHER ( + variations).
Areas. Co Sligo, Co Leitrim, Co Mayo. IRELAND.
Ontario, CANADA
Lowell, Ma, USA
Counties of Northumberland & Durham, ENGLAND
-------------------------------------------------------------------
MALEY/MELIA/MALLEY  - with or without " O "
Westport Co Mayo. Northumberland
-------------------------------------------------------------------
DIXON
Cumberland.. Brampton, Carlisle, ENGLAND

Census information is Crown Copyright. from www.nationalarchives.

Offline Cougar

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Re: Newcastle look up please - Presbyterian
« Reply #19 on: Thursday 29 November 07 00:03 GMT (UK) »
Hi Michael
As you say WHEW !!
You have just solved what was a family mystery.  The details of Cornelius being the father were from a family book and never did quite 'sit right' - I could find absolutely no reference to him being a doctor - let alone the father of my Robert Dawson.
As you say, from the records, the father of Robert Dawson was Robert.
I am now sure (thanks to your brilliant efforts) that the descendant who did the family book got just a tad mixed up.
That too about Henry Gregson being a surgeon fits in -
Robert died two months before Robert D's birth, leaving Elizabeth with the two young children.
I think it likely that it was Robert (snr) who died of TB with Gregson being the doctor - possibly treating Robert??
Thank you so much for all of the information -
I am still trying to prove that Robert is a brother to Michael in order to join the two families (ever hopeful here, aren't I) - but there are too many similarities in the future generations names for that not to be a distinct possibility.
You are also right about Benny Gregson - you certainly did some searching for me - and belive me, I am really grateful.
Do have a wonderful Christmas and a Happy and safe New Year - and above all - keep up the good work.
Cheers, Cougar in Oz. :)
Researching STANLEY(Coventry to Shoreditch area, EWENS,(somerset) BARBER,(Holloway) WOOD,(Shoreditch area) WHILLANCE,(N-U-T Northumberland)  ROSSER,(Glamorgan Wales) REYNOLDS,(Kent) SPILLER (London)
This information is Crown Copywrite. from the www.national archives.go.v.uk.

Offline Michael Dixon

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Re: Newcastle look up please - Presbyterian
« Reply #20 on: Thursday 29 November 07 00:38 GMT (UK) »
Cougar,

Thanks for your thanks.

Two " by the way"s

1) I think Robert senior born circa 1820 is the son of Michael, born circa 1795.

2) Because most of my own "oral history" was made up of a fair proportion of fibs, inaccuracies and exaggerations, I disregard it if it is not substantiated by official records.

and maybe one more .. "by the way"... I browsed in Presbyterian records (Wall Knowl)  today from 1810 onwards, but could see none of the baptisms for the children of Michael and Elizabeth... mainly cos the register was so difficult to read....

OK, just one more.....  After the last couple of days I have seen about two dozen Whillance households on all the various censuses.... and what was striking was that the surname got spelled correctly every time ( I am discounting misreadings made by modern-day transcribers) except for Robert's widow on C1881 ( ref 5033-50-41)... = Willance... this shows, I think, that they were all literate !

Michael
Newcastle
Names.

GALLAGHER ( + variations).
Areas. Co Sligo, Co Leitrim, Co Mayo. IRELAND.
Ontario, CANADA
Lowell, Ma, USA
Counties of Northumberland & Durham, ENGLAND
-------------------------------------------------------------------
MALEY/MELIA/MALLEY  - with or without " O "
Westport Co Mayo. Northumberland
-------------------------------------------------------------------
DIXON
Cumberland.. Brampton, Carlisle, ENGLAND

Census information is Crown Copyright. from www.nationalarchives.

Offline Cougar

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Re: Newcastle look up please - Presbyterian
« Reply #21 on: Thursday 29 November 07 01:00 GMT (UK) »
Hi again Michael.
OK - I have the death of Robert snr as being Sept 1849 ref. Newcastle Tyne  25 258 - I think I will have to send for this and hopefully it will have an age on it - which would then definitely confirm / deny? your theory about Robert being son of Michael.
This being correct is a distinct possiblity as I have no further info on that Robert born Gateshead, Durham, Northumberland, England ref. IGI C064651
Michaels children were born
1814 Mary Ann in NuT
1816 Cornelius (I just have a ref. from IGI that doesn't state where, just Northumberland)
1819 Robert born Gateshead
1824 Jane NuT
1827 John Dawson NuT
c1830 Margaret NuT

Your 'research' also matches mine in that I could not find that 'Cornelius' on the 1841 - so I am sure I may have been chasing the quite literal  'invisible' person.
I still haven't found a marriage for Robert and Elizabeth Calston - so will start going through the marriages and see if I can pick up any for a Robert Whillance and Elizabeth (and disregard the Calston as being correct for the time being).
If one entry in the family book is wrong - then this could well be too.

Again, thanks for your help............it really is appreciated.
Cheers Cougar

Researching STANLEY(Coventry to Shoreditch area, EWENS,(somerset) BARBER,(Holloway) WOOD,(Shoreditch area) WHILLANCE,(N-U-T Northumberland)  ROSSER,(Glamorgan Wales) REYNOLDS,(Kent) SPILLER (London)
This information is Crown Copywrite. from the www.national archives.go.v.uk.