Illigitimacy + no name on census = H.E.L.P

[joanna69]

Hello, I am new here, so please be gentle!!! My post is long but I want to get in as many relevant facts to make sure if anyone out there can help, they understand what I'm looking for.

Okay, here goes:

I have the birth cirtificate of an ancetor, namely William Norman Ellis born 26th May 1874 in Walworth (registration district St Saviour [Southwark], Surrey, subdistrict St Peter Walworth). 

His mother's name is: Maria Ellis.  Her age is not given.  She lived at 33 Alpha Square, Walworth at the time and this is also given as place of birth.

And that is it!  No father's name so obviously illigitimate.  Now I'm in touch with the London Metropolitan Archive to have a look at the parish register as I understand that even though father's names weren't put on the offical certificate, that they could have been registered on the parish records.  So that avenue is to be looked at.

The problem ALSO (if that weren't enough) is that I can find no trace of  "Maria Ellis" living in Walworth in any census.  But given the baby is born between the 1871 and 1881 census its not surprising.  Either the address she gave as where she lived was "temporary" (i.e to have the baby) or she had simply moved to it after the 1871 census and on from it before the 1881.  I have searched for "marie ellis" (and "mary ellis") with a birth date on and around 1841 and there are lots.  But knowing which is my Ms Ellis (if any!) is the tricky bit.  They all appear to be married.  A few servants too. 

So I figured the best bet would be to look for the child - William Norman Ellis b. 1874 in that part of Surrey - in the 1881 census.  He would only have been 7 so I figured he'd appear somewhere being looked after by a Marie (or Mary - have tried that). But nothing.  I took out the Norman too.  There are a few "william Ellis's" but all appear to have parents and none with a mother called "Maria [Mary] Ellis".  The one "william ellis" born in Southwark is a son of Sarah and Henry Ellis and he has many siblings. I don't think its him?

We know this man existed because he's the father of my OH's grandfather.  He ended up owning a pub in Sydenham at the turn of the century. And of course we have record of him on his own birth certificate.  But other than that, we can find no definite record of him "inbetween" his own birth and his son's birth in 1915.  We don't yet have his marriage certificate though i believe one does exist.  Would that shed any light on any of it?

Also, is the 1911 census available to look at in the national archive?  If he's there living in Sydenham in 1915 he may have been there in 1911. It may give a clue as to where he gave as his "place of birth"?   It has crossed my mind that maybe he didn't know exactly where he was born so the birth cirtificate could have sent me on a wild goose chase across london.  If I knew where he THOUGHT he was born I may be able to find his census entry for previous dates.

I'm still baffled by there being no firm record of him as a young child though.  He can't just vanish.  Its very frustrating. 

Any help on how to tackle this gratefully recieved. 

EDITIED to say the mother's age is NOT given (got confused with the street number and her details on the birth certificate).  So no idea how old she was when he was born. So even less to go on 

[Heather D]

A huge welcome to Rootschat

My first instinct in cases like this is that the mother married between birth and census - you often find children listed under the stepfather's name.

This marriage jumped out at me

Marriage St Saviour Southwark
Dec 1877 ref 1d 2
Ann Maria Ellis
William Henry Norman

Could he possibly have been given the father's surname as a middle name I wonder?

Heather

[Dave Francis]

Hi there - and a very warm welcome to Rootschat! 

Just for your records, here are the occupants of 33 Alpha Square in 1881...

1881 Newington (St Peter Walworth) London
RG 11/540 folio 42 page 1
Frederick J Cole, head, 51, cabman, Yeovil Somerset
Sarah, wife, 47, Middlesex London
Ellen, daur, 23, book folder, Middlesex London
Frederick W., son, 17, brass founder, Middlesex London
William, son, 15, Middlesex London
Jesse E., daur, 19, Middlesex London
Amy S., daur, 10, Middlesex London

As regards the whereabouts of William and his mother Maria, I suppose it's not unlikely that she married shortly after his birth and that they are listed somewhere under her married name.

Checking the parish records is a good idea, although I think the London Metropolitan Archives are closed for stock-taking/refurbishment until January - you may have to wait for a response.

Regarding the 1911 Census, no you can't view it at The National Archives. At the moment you can only order a copy of the household schedule for a specific address (£45).

And I yes, I would certainly obtain a copy of William's marriage certificate. If he knew who is father was, he may have named him. If not, he may have invented a name or left it blank.

Dave

[Heather D]

What about this family in Walworth?

1881 RG11 548 49 29

1891 RG12 359 33 59
(they are William H and Ann M in this census)

Of course his marriage cert may help shed some light ...any clues as to who/when/where he married? If my theory holds water you may even find him under Norman....

Heather

[avm228]

Marriage St Saviour Southwark
Dec 1877 ref 1d 2
Ann Maria Ellis
William Henry Norman

This may or may not be this couple in 1881:

67 North St, Marylebone
RG11/158 folio 102 p6

William H. Norman Head Mar 33 Plasterer b Berkshire
Annie M. do Wife Mar 24 Suffolk

No little boy with them, though

Modified: I think Heather's "Norman" family in Walworth are a much better bet!

Anna

[Dave Francis]

That marriage that Heather found does look promising...

1891 Newington St Mary
RG 12/359 folio 33 page 59

49 <Grenville?> Road
William H Norman, head, rough skins cutter, Southwark
Ann M., wife, 36, Newington
William, son, 16, office boy
Edward A., 13, scholar, Newington

[tazzie]

   There is an Ann Maria Ellis b Middlesex  in 1871

 RG10/455 F 36  P  2

 88 St Johns Rd (Ivy House) Shoreditch.

 Ann Maria Ellis serv unm 22 general servant  Middlesex

 Head of house is..Henry Crane  licensed victualler

                    Tazzie

[Dave Francis]

This one's also worth investigating..

1871 St Mary Newington, London
RG 10/622 folio 1 page 4
1 Clarence Cottages
Edwin J <or T?> Ellis, Head, 43, clicker, Mile End Middsx
Harriett P, wife, 42, Dover Rd Surrey
Maria A., daur, 15, servant, Newington Surrey
Harriett, daur, 13, scholar, Newington Surrey
Frederic W., son 11, scholar, Newington Surrey
Thomas E., son, 9, scholar, Newington Surrey
Anne, daur, 6, scholar, Newington Surrey

[joanna69]

I am in AWE of you all for digging this information out.  We all really were thinking "that's it" but you are all truly wonderful in helping me out with this.

Off to do the school run but will be back later to do some more research based on your absolutely brilliant advice.  If there's anything else, will be so interested.

I'm a member of ancestry.co.uk so will look up the census stuff there once I get a chance this afternoon.

Thanks again to you all -

Joanna xx