A mystery first marriage: 1830s-1850s

[bedfordshire boy]

Let's go for a process of elimination

In 1841 in Downham was James Martin 25 and Robert Martin 15 in household of James & Avis Wisby. Cambs FHS baptism has a baptism of Robert Martin in Downham in 1824, son of Robert and Avis. I can't see a baptism of James to this couple, but he may well be the James, father Robert, who married Mary Ann Moxon, who Frances found. 

Or was he? Also in Downham in 1841 was James Martin 20 (or is it 40?) in household of John Moxon, which included Mary Moxon 25

Were there two separate James in Downham, or is it the same James enumerated twice with different ages. The census was taken the night before he married so could he have spent that night with his mother rather than his intended?

More questions than answers so far

David

[AndrewMartin]

I've just been looking at your tree and trying to pick up the family in censuses, concentrating on 1861. In it James gives his birthplace as Downham and age 46. As he was described as a rail road labourer,  he was possibly away from home building railroads in 1851 - was an occupation quoted on his marriage cert? But there's a James Martin married 35 ag lab birthplace unknown living in Wicken in 1851 which is not far from Downham, which might be him.

I dont really know where he was. Wicken is a possibility as it is so close by... so it could be him. Also missing is John Saddons, the husband of Sarah Saddons (nee Tingey) - the sister of his second wife Mary Martin (nee Tingey). Perhaps they were away working together?

I think the James son of James and Mary baptised 1814 at Coveney, abode Wadrow Hill, is the same James age 37 born Coveney married to Susanna living at Wardyhill in 1851 next door to James and Mary Martin. Which if correct blows the pre 1814 part of your tree out of the water. James and Susanna's 1842 marriage cert should help prove/disprove my theory.

uh oh...  keep reading....

What was the name of James' father on his marriage cert to Mary Tingey - James I assume?

James Martin and Mary Crisp (nee Tingey) were married on 27th July 1850 in the 'countess of huntingdon's chapel according to the rites and ceremonies of the Calvinists'. And, whilst I had somehow assumed that James was noted as his father, it is written in the copy of the certificate as 'Robert Martin - labourer'... so yes, there is/was something fishy in my tree. I wonder why i overlooked this years ago? This means that i've got a good five generations of Martins to chop off my ancestry.. although they probably still feature somewhere in the tree.

This means therefore that an earlier guess at Mary Ann Moxen as the first wife, could well be correct - she married a James Martin (of Robert Martin) at Little Downham on 7th June 1841 - 1 day after the 1841 census!!!! GRRRRR!    how inconsiderate!!   

So, looking for an unmarried James Martin, about 25/6yrs old in 1841 has given me the following:

1841, Hundred Foot Bank, Oxlode
James Wisby 35 Ag Lab Y
Avis Wisby 35 Ag Lab Y
James Martin 25 Ag Lab Y
Robert Martin 15 Ag Lab Y

Looking through the Little Downham baptisms with a new light, shows that a Robert and Avis Martin were growing a family there. Children included William (1813), Sarah (1818), Robert (1822), Robert (1824). My records, transcribed from the register (on film at the Cambs Records Office) doesn't go back any further so I shall now have a look at our friendly Mormon's records...

As he married in a nonconformist church it's possible he wasn't baptised in the established church

James Martin b.1815ish who married the Moxon and Tingey brides... Yes, this has crossed my mind before but i'm not really sure what to look for if that is the case - im not sure who the Calvinists are/were and where i'd find their records.

This could be a great example of barking up the wrong tree... there's an important lesson in there somewhere.

[AndrewMartin]

Let's go for a process of elimination

Oops, we overlapped there.

[bedfordshire boy]

You took the bad news that your tree is now a stump remarkably well Andrew! Same thing happened to me a few years ago, so you're not alone in having done it.

Now that you've established that James' father was Robert that does put a whole new complexion on it, and I agree that the James who married Mary Moxon is very possibly the James who married Mary Crisp, and is likely to be a son of Robert and Avis, given that who appears to be him was living with Avis and who was probably his brother Robert in 1841.

Avis' age of 35 is obviously wrong in 1841 for even if she were 39 she would still be too young to be married and having a child in 1813. In fact in 1851 Aves Wisbe was 58 born Downham which looks much more realistic.

Looking at the Burial Index there's a Robert Martin aged 41 buried at Downham in 1826 which might well be Avis' first husband and father of Robert, and probably James too. If this is the right Robert then Avis would have remarried James Wisby earlier than I'd assumed and in fact the Henry Wisby(e) who appears in 1841/51 born 1830 is on the IGI as the son of James and Avis. I can't see a marriage of James Wisby and Avis Martin between 1826 and 1830 though.

I'm not convinced now that the family was non-conformist, given that Robert & Avis baptised five other children either side of when James was born in the established church. Perhaps James was just missed - there's a nice big gap between William in 1813 and Sarah in 1818

Mary Martins were two a penny in Cambs and there are two deaths in Ely registration district, which includes Downham, which might be yours - March 1844 and June 1846

Regards

David

[AndrewMartin]

You took the bad news that your tree is now a stump remarkably well Andrew! Same thing happened to me a few years ago, so you're not alone in having done it.

Oh well, you know, there's no need to really be upset by it. I've enjoyed researching my surrogate Martin, Waters, Atkins etc ancestors as a result of this error. I even have a photo of my 'Mary Martin/Waters' - a lovely photo.. but it's not her now! Not to worry. I'll get to update my website soon once i've established the right James Martin.

Now that you've established that James' father was Robert that does put a whole new complexion on it, and I agree that the James who married Mary Moxon is very possibly the James who married Mary Crisp,

I've been having a look at the Moxon family. I found the James Martin living at Main Street, Little Downham, 1841 at the house of John Moxon.. with a '25' year old Mary Moxon. I then had a rummage on familysearch.org and have found contrasting results. Rather than John Moxon, they've got a Francis Moxon.. who married... an Elizabeth Tingey! (to add to that, Elizabeth Tingey was the daughter of Mary Barber - who features over in my maternal tree!). The family group of Moxons, headed by the wrong father, lists all the same children and the mother as the 1841 census does. Confusing. 1809 and 1818 show up Downham Mary Moxons but none of John Moxon (as per marriage register).

and is likely to be a son of Robert and Avis, given that who appears to be him was living with Avis and who was probably his brother Robert in 1841.

Avis' age of 35 is obviously wrong in 1841 for even if she were 39 she would still be too young to be married and having a child in 1813. In fact in 1851 Aves Wisbe was 58 born Downham which looks much more realistic.

Interesting. I originally read that as Avis Wisby being the married sister of James and Robert. I wonder!

Looking at the Burial Index there's a Robert Martin aged 41 buried at Downham in 1826 which might well be Avis' first husband and father of Robert, and probably James too. If this is the right Robert then Avis would have remarried James Wisby earlier than I'd assumed and in fact the Henry Wisby(e) who appears in 1841/51 born 1830 is on the IGI as the son of James and Avis. I can't see a marriage of James Wisby and Avis Martin between 1826 and 1830 though.

This would explain why I havent been able to find Robert Martin on the censuses.

I'm not convinced now that the family was non-conformist, given that Robert & Avis baptised five other children either side of when James was born in the established church. Perhaps James was just missed - there's a nice big gap between William in 1813 and Sarah in 1818

Mary Martins were two a penny in Cambs and there are two deaths in Ely registration district, which includes Downham, which might be yours - March 1844 and June 1846

Regards

David

Thank you David, it's been great working through this with you today. I've now got some extra work to do on Monday week at the records office. 

[suffolk*sue]

From Boyds marriage index



1827 / WISBY, WISBEY, WISBE  JAMES / MARTIN  AVIS / DOWNHAM 

[AndrewMartin]

Hi Sue,

Thanks again for your help. The pieces of this new jumbled jigsaw are all beginning to fall in to place.

At this rate, by Christmas, i'll have discovered a whole 'new me'. 

[AndrewMartin]

Avis' age of 35 is obviously wrong in 1841 for even if she were 39 she would still be too young to be married and having a child in 1813. In fact in 1851 Aves Wisbe was 58 born Downham which looks much more realistic.

Looking at the Burial Index there's a Robert Martin aged 41 buried at Downham in 1826 which might well be Avis' first husband and father of Robert, and probably James too. If this is the right Robert then Avis would have remarried James Wisby earlier than I'd assumed and in fact the Henry Wisby(e) who appears in 1841/51 born 1830 is on the IGI as the son of James and Avis. I can't see a marriage of James Wisby and Avis Martin between 1826 and 1830 though.

Well, I've now received the marriage certificate for James Martin and Mary Ann Moxon. Unhelpfully, they are both 'full age' but it does tell me that they were of Robert Martin and John Moxon respectfully. However, it does not tell me that Robert Martin was deceased - an oversight? perhaps.

The witnesses were William Moxon and Eliza Webb. I've looked at the Moxons on the 1841 Little Downham census, which comes with the 20yr old James Martin too.. and William is, as expected, the brother and Eliza Webb lives next door on Main Street.

Flicking back through my research notes, i have records of baptisms of a Robert and Avis Martin up until 1824, when it's Robert Martin (the second's) turn. After that, Avis Martin vanishes... and a Robert Martin, like you said, turns up in the burials at Lt Downham in 1826.

[bedfordshire boy]

It often happens that it's not mentioned that a father is deceased. The officiating person merely asked for father's name, but not if he was still alive, and the about to be newlywed didn't volunteer the information

David