Burgess - Dunbar

[1310963]

I have a descendant John Jeffrey who was enrolled as a burgess of  the Burgh of Dunbar in July 1800.
Can anyone tell me what age you had to be in Scotland to be eligible to become a burgess?
I am trying to establish his date of birth, it would be helpful if someone could confirm that you had to be a minimum of 21.
I would then at least have a fixed starting point, as the subsequent census entries (1851 and 1861) and death certificate all give conflicting  later dates that would but his age at enrollment at between  13 and 20 years old.

[hume]

Welcome to RootsChat, 1310963.

What details do you have of John? Wife/children? And did the death certificate (after 1855, of course) give details to his mother and father's names? All this will help narrow down some possibilities for your John's birth and/or christening date.

The surname Jeffery/Jaffray is quite popular in the East Lothian area.

hume24

[1310963]

I have a fair amount of detail about John Jeffrey.  He was married to Margaret Darling in 1805/1806. They had at least four children Isabella Purves (Dunbar 1806), Catherine Hall (Dunber1807) John (Dunbar 1810 he became a respected doctor in Ayton and later Jedburgh) and my descendant George (1820 although yet to find the baptismal record to confirm his claim in later census returns of also being born in Dunbar).  John's wife Margaret Darling born 1781 died 1824, her headstone is in Dunbar Parish Church 'old' graveyard. John was active on the Burgh council from 1813 to 1835 and was often described as clerk to Mr Christopher Middlemass.  John died February 1864 in Hulme Manchester, and was described as a book-keeper. John appears in the 1851 English census with Georges family described as a shipping agent and in the 1861 Scottish census with John at Ayton described as a retired clerk.  But I cannot trace him in the 1841 English or Scottish census returns.  A number of possibilities but finding a more exact birth date would help in identifying the right one.  hence back to my original question for the age at which someone can become a burgess.  This conundrum has 'bugged' me now for almost 10 years.  Numerous visits to  NAS in Edinburgh has produced a lot of evidence of his civic duties but little else.

[tidybooks]

Hi,

What do you have in the way of proof for your descendant, George, I tried to find him, but not having much success so far. The reason I am asking it is always best to start from a definite fact then you can widen search.

Tom

[1310963]

Hi there
I have George JEFFREY's marriage certificate 29 October 1839, Carliol Square Newcastle upon Tyne described as a painter 'of full age' wife Ann Hird, father John Jeffrey (agent)
George JEFFREY (JAFFRAY) appears in the 1841 census for Dunbar living with his sister Catherine Hall JEFFREY and brother in law Thomas COCKBURN at High Street.  He is described as a painter and his age is quoted as 20 (which in the 1841 age groupings means anything from 20 to 24) and his place of birth is given as Haddingtonshire.
He goes on to appear in the 1851 census Chiselhurst Kent (the rest of his family are  in Somers Town London, so he must have been working away from home on census night) described as painter aged 31 place of birth Dunbar, East Lothian Scotland.
1861 census St Georges Hulme Manchester (this time with all the family) House painter & provision dealer aged 40 place of birth Scotland.
1871 census Bank Street, Blackpool, House decorator aged 51 place of birth Scotland
1881 census Bank Street, Blackpool, House decorator aged 61 place of birth Dunbar Scotland
He died 8 October 1884 at Aycliffe Co. Durham  age 65 described on the death certificate as a house decorator.
But even with this information I still cannot find a plausible link to any John Jeffrey or Margaret darling in the IGI for around 1820

[hume]

Hi again,

Like yourself, I can't find any trace of John or Margaret in 1841. However, this would only give an approximate date for John so I'm not sure if it would help you that much.

I looked at the entry for John in 1861 and therefore, started searching for births in Dunbar for those dates. No births showing, however there is a marriage for James Jeffray and Catharine Robertson in 1782, Dunbar. I wonder if this couple are his parents?

hume24

[1310963]

Hello there
I have been thinking of trying to skip a generation back myself. I hadn't looked at the  marriage entry you refer to, but the problem I have is the the subsequent death certificate and census entries (1851 and 1861) for him put his birth date at between 1780 and 1787 but the one thing I do know for sure was that he was made a burgess in Dunbar in June 1800, so with a birthdate of  say 1782 this would make him 18 at the time he became a burgess.  Hence back to my original question, at what age could you be elected a burgess? I am assuming 21, but would like to know as this could have a bearing.
The only possible clue I have going back from John was that his second daughter was christened Catherine Hall Jeffrey (1807).  The family stuck fairly closely to traditional Scottish patronomics which would mean that she would be named after the paternal grand mother.
I have managed to find a baptism entry for a George Jeffrey June 1772 at Oldhamstocks with parents given as John Jeffrey and Katherine Hall. With John born around 1782, this George could potentially be his younger brother, but to date no other children with the parent John and Katherine Hall.

[tidybooks]

Hi Again,

I think we may be looking at 2 different John Jeffrey's, the one who married Margaret Darling 1805 and had a fsamily of 4 and was a doctor in nearby Ayton and Jedburgh, and an unknown predecessor, who lived in Dunbar and was enrolled as a  Burgess in Dunbar.

I have googled trying to find defintion of Burgess and how it was awarded but not been to successful. A Burgess is a member of a Burgh Council, but not sure if this is some sort of award for exemplary service, and being 18-21 would think had not provided such service in such a short time.

Until we can prove it is the seame person, I am going to have this doubt, available records online do not prove or disprove. I wonder if East Lothian Council Archives, could help. They can be contacted during office hours, maybe able to answer the age question and actual age of th John Jeffrey who was enrolled as a Burgess.

Tom

[tidybooks]

Hi again,

Found this on National Archives of Scotland site,

""Burgesses
Burgesses were originally any inhabitant of a burgh who held land there. It was later restricted to merchants and craftsmen. Burgess tickets were also granted to outsiders who had performed some service for the burgh. In addition to the burgess rolls and court books recording the admission of burgesses in the burgh records, there is a separate series of burgess tickets in NAS ref. RH10. The Scottish Record Society has published indexed or alphabetical lists of burgesses for Edinburgh, Canongate, Glasgow and Dumbarton.""

It gives me idea of someone older than 18-21.

Tom