Please Help with my Scott Family - Northumberland & Durham

[kossie]

Hi Listers

I am really do hope someone can offer me some guidance on my Scott family as I am stuck!!!

Thomas Scott c1844 Bedlington is my greatgrandfather.

I have his marriage cert to Isabella Bell which lists Robert as father.

All the census records list place of birth of Thomas as Bedlington, however I cannot find a relevant BMD record that shows Robert as father. 

The 1851 to 1871 census shows the family as follows:

Robert Scott c1804 Walbottle/Newburn
Margaret c1818 Blyth or Blaydon.
Isabella c1838 Newburn
Robert c1839 Newburn
Thomas c1844 Bedlington
William c1846 Scotland or Whitworth??
James c1851 Winlaton

I cannot find a marriage for Robert Scott and Margaret. There are quite a few years between the birth of Robert c1839 Newburn and Thomas c1844 Bedlington, maybe Robert's first wife died and he remarried??

I would be "eternally" grateful for any help or guidance on the above, as I am about to give up!! 

Regards
Dorothy
Sydney NSW 
 
 
 

[Ecneps]

Hi Dorothy,

Could this be the family in 1841?

HO107/836/8 fol.12 p.24
Ratliff Terrace, Hauxley, Warkworth, Northumberland
SCOTT
Robert 40 Coal Miner
Mary   43
Margaret 10
William 5
Isabela 3
Jane Ann 1
all born in county

I can't see this family in 1851, so wondered if Mary might be Robert's first wife 
 

Barbara

[kossie]

Hi Barbara

Many thanks for your input. I have looked at the census entry and this could be a "maybe". There is a marriage for Robert Scott and Mary Chapman, Newburn 1834, and quite a few deaths for Mary Scott in Morpeth/Alnwick/Berwick the years following the 1841 census.

As I said I cannot find the correct birth in Morpeth district for Thomas, so I checked the births registered in Gateshead district for James born Winlaton c1851 - however Margaret was not shown as mother on any of the entries.

The problem is there are so many Scotts in Northumberland and Durham, and I think my Scotts may have been Presbyterian/Methodist etc.

There are birth registrations for Isabella in Castle Ward 1838 and 1839 so maybe I will have to order the certificates and see if this gives me any information. I know it is usual to work backwards but maybe this time I need to work forwards!!!!

Thank you for your help Barbara - I am really going around in circles with this lot!!

Dorothy

[Michael Dixon]

Dorothy,


I noticed you wrote " I cannot find a relevant BMD record that shows Robert as father" .. of Thomas.

Thomas is recorded on 6 censuses as born in Bedlington. Aged 7,17,27,37, 47 and 57. Consistent what ! ( and much more exact than for other members of the family.

Bedlington shire, parish and town lay within the Registriction District of Morpeth.

FreeBMD site shows a birth registration for a Thomas Scott made at/with Morpeth Reg District in the Sept Quarter of 1844. This looks to be a good candidate for the birth registration of your Thomas!

Are you saying that you have checked with Register Office and been informed that there is no appropriate registration there for a Thomas Scott with Robert as father of the child ?
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I notice the Scott family on C1841 at Hauxley/Warkworth included a 5 yr old William. So did the Scott family on C1851 in Winlaton.  So either two different families or same family that named two boys William ( not impossible).

Michael Dixon Newcastle

[kossie]

Hi Michael

Many thanks for your comments.

I ordered two certificates for Thomas, Sept 1842 Morpeth and  Sept 1844 Morpeth, with the proviso Robert was father, neither matched.

The consistency of age and birth place on the census is amazing! The age of the other family members vary a bit and William's birth place Scotland and Whitworth Durham!!

The majority of census show Blyth for Margaret's place of birth, so I am thinking maybe the birth was registered in Blyth in the Tynemouth district. I suppose this is a possibility.

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Once again many thanks for your help.

Dorothy

[Michael Dixon]

Blyth (which lay half in Horton "ancient" Parish and half in Earsdon "ancient" Parish) lay within the juridiction of the Registration District of Tynemouth.

But Blyth was a sub-district office of Tynemouth for birth registrations.

When Register Offices were reorganised... Tynemouth divied up all it's records..... the Longbenton and Wallsend records given to Newcastle, Blyth and Cowpen records to Morpeth, name changed to Northumberland Central, and the rest moved to RO in North Shields.
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Newburn Marriage 24 Aug 1834, Robert Scott, of this Parish and Mary Chapman, of this Parish, witnesses Michael Chapman and William Moore. Robert signed the register, Mary made a mark = X. William was a regular witness for sevearl marriages.
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Newburn Baptisms.

9 Mar 1835 Jane Scott dtr of Robert, coal miner, and Mary Scott of New Winning

Born 4 Nov 1837, bapt 26 Nov 1837, Robert Scott son of Robert, coal miner, and Mary Scott of Walbottle

Other Baptisms...

29 Jan 1837. Robert J A Scott son of James, coal miner and Barbara Scott of "Brickworks"

27 May 1838 Thomas Scott son of Elizabeth Scott, spinster of "Quarries".

11 May 1839 Robert Scott, son of Alice Scott, spinster of Walbottle


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No sign of death of a Mary Scott. No sign of baptism for an Isobella/Isabel.
 No sign of other marriage for a Robert Scott.

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On Census 1841, on page 823/9 198-32, there is a 70 year old Margaret Chapman, below her is a Mary Scott, 30, son William, 8, dtr Jane 6 and son William £, all Scotts.

Where's Robert... down the pit !




Michael Dixon

[kossie]

Hi Michael

Many thanks for all the information, very much appreciated.

I will be back later - it will take me a while to get my head around the details, I am rather slow!!

Dorothy

[kossie]

Hi Michael

The baptism of Robert son of Robert and Mary looks promising.

I found Robert son of James and Barbara with his parents in the 1851 Census, so I don't think hes mine.

The 1841 census of Mary Scott with Margaret Chapman also looks good, however, Isabella is missing (not unusual) and there is also another  William.

I have a "gut" feeling Robert may have been married more than twice!!

There is quite a gap between Robert c1839 and Thomas c1844 then between William c1846 and James c1851,
however on the other hand children may have died.

In the 1851 and 1861 census there is a James Turnbull with the family and he is listed as father in law.

I have done a lot of searching to find a marriage - Robert Scott  to Margaret Turnbull no luck. Maybe Margaret had been married previously, and then again maybe James Turnbull was the father of Robert's previous wife/s.!!  Who knows?

I will keep looking for a birth registration for Thomas, although may be he was not registered!

What a family! I gave up on this lot at the beginning of this year and have decided it will be my New Year challenge!!

Michael, once again, many thanks for your help and the time taken to look up the information you have provided.

Dorothy

 

[Michael Dixon]

Dorothy,

The Newburn Parish records held info on several Scott families, not just a Robert & Mary... maybe James and/or others were sibling(s) of Robert

The term " in-law" was sometimes used to mean "Step"

Your Thomas on his marriage, tells the vicar/registrar that he is son of Robert. On 6 consecutive censuses enumerators are told that he was born in Bedlington.

But modern-day Register Office say they have no
"Thomas, son of Robert".....     
!

I wonder if Blyth-born Margaret had had Thomas before she partnered up with Robert Scott..... and Thomas's birth was registered under a different surname... her maiden name or the name of a previous husband...

Maybe James, born Winlaton c1851, is the first child for Robert/Margaret ...??

Children of Robert/Mary= William b1833, Jane b1835, Robert 1837.

Children of Margaret+ ?? = Thomas b.1844, William b c1846

Children of Robert/Margaret = James ?

I have not "allocated" Isabella... need her baptism record !
The family on C1851 have her one yr older than Robert, then on C1861 they have her 2 yrs younger... It is not the actual accuracy of her age that strikes me, but the fact that her folk were maybe unsure of which child came first ?

James Turnbull.
From C1851= born Heddon.

The parish of Heddon-on-the Wall is threequarters surrounded by the Parish of Newburn.

If Margaret, wife of Robert, was born in Blyth, she would probably have been baptised ( assuming Anglican) in either St Albans, Parish Church of Earsdon or St Mary's the Virgin, Parish Church of Horton. ( Blyth town developed straddling the border of these two parishes)

Back to James Scott, born Winlaton. Within Gateshead Reg District (which covers Winlaton) there were two birth registrations in 1849/51 for James Scott. The first one was registered in Sept Qtr 1849. Putting him on C1851.

The later James was registered in Sept Qtr 1851, born too late for C1851.  James son of Robert is 10 on C1861 and 20 on C1871, 30 on C1881... but is not on C1851 !! making him a probable for the Sept 1851 registration...This full name of this registration  = "James Cooper Scott."  Does the name Cooper mean anything to you?

Michael Dixon