Catherine Cabble - Lymington

[JamesDMcBust]

Thanks for everyone's interest.

Valda - You may be right about finding Catherine (or Mary?) living with her daughter in law, however, my records show that Charlotte's mother just happened to be called Mary (born 1796 in Somerset) so it could easily be her. John Cabble, Charlotte's husband, is found living back with his father, Benjamin in this census so at least that might be explained if his wife was poorly/pregnant.

Other info I have:

John Cabble married Charlotte Corp (listed Carp in 1841 census!!) on 21 August 1859.

A Harry George Cabble was buried 12th March 1863 in Keinton Mandeville Church, aged 1 year 11 month - means born approx April 1861.  So perhaps she lost the first baby.

John & Charlotte did have at least one child, George A, born in KM in 1864.

Daisypetal - Benjamin Warwick Cabble was my gggrandfather.

So back to 1861 entry, it's a toss up between either Mary Cabble (mother) born Som, or Catherine (middle name Mary?) Cabble (mother-in-law) born Hampshire. If it was Catherine, it explains her apparent disappearance.

I suppose it's not possible to get a birth record from the baptism details of Emily Ellen, is it? I am currently trying to contact someone who descends from a son of Emily Ellen, so see if she has anything concrete about Emily.

All the census records show Benjamin to be born in KM so the question of  how he & someone from Hampshire gets together has to be answered.  One explanation is that Catherine could have been in service nr KM.  But then there's Emily Ellen.  Even if Emily is his child, why would she have been born in Hampshire.  I've checked the census for Cabbles in Hampshire, and yes there are one or two in/around Portsea area so that's another idea I had.

Well I'll throw this one back to you all for another chew!

[JamesDMcBust]

The penny has suddenly dropped.

I know it wouldn't solve the "Emily Ellen" dilemma, but I could order the birth certificate of Benjamin Warwick to find out more about Catherine.  I know its 1840 Jan-Mar Langport vol 10, 449.
 
But before I shell out, would it definitely show what her maiden name was before she married Benjamin senior?

[Valda]

A census entry only tells you where a person was that night not where they living, so it doesn't tell you John was living with his parents. The 1861 census entry clearly states mother-in-law. If it was actually Charlotte's own mother then her age is even further out (given as 58 on the 1851 census - so if it was her at least 18 years out on her age and you might expect Charlotte as Head of household to be more secure about her mother's age than Catherine's) and 'Mary' also has the wrong county of birth - strange therefore of all the counties she should be given Hampshire!
Being recorded as Mary on a census doesn't actually indicate you have a middle name of Mary, it just indicates that either the enumerator was given the wrong information in the first place or very tiredly when copying the household returns (written perhaps not all that well) into his enumeration book made an error. All the household schedules for all censuses up to 1911 were destroyed. Only the census enumerators' copies remain and as there is no other evidence that Catherine had another name the probability is more likely that this was an error, as was her age.

Charlotte's father's name was Samuel.

I think Charlotte's maiden name was actually Carp not Corp (Corp on the 1851 census, Carp on the 1841 census)

Deaths Mar 1854  
Carpe  Mary    Langport  5c 324  

Deaths Dec 1856  
Carpe  Samuel     Langport  5c 298

Marriages Sep 1859  
Cabble  John    Langport  5c 709  
Carp  Charlotte     Langport  5c 709

All the more reason for Charlotte if she was pregnant to have her mother-in-law with her (acting as a nurse) if her own mother was by 1861 dead as certainly her father was.

I have already stated (in my earlier post) it was likely at the time of her marriage that Catherine possibly surname Ireland was in service and therefore not surprising that she would be working in a relatively close by town such as Sherborne Dorset. It doesn't mean that pre the date she couldn't have been in service in Somerset or that the pair met in the market town of Sherborne - not all that far away from Keinton Mandeville and farmer labourers tend to frequent market towns as that is where 'hiring fairs' are held or their employers send them to sell produce or buy tools etc.
Marrying into a family can mean moving close to them, either the wife's parents or your own as they tend to have somewhere you can lodge cheaply and they can help find you work. On the 1841 census there were 44 Irelands living in Milford so it would appear Catherine had substantial potential family members in the area. Emily's baptism in Milford would seem to strongly support Catherine was either born in Lymington and grew up in Milford or vice versa.

Civil registration began on 1st July 1837. Birth certificates give the mother's maiden name - just as they do today. I did suggest in my previous post purchasing one of the later children's birth certificates would confirm Catherine's maiden name.

Regards

Valda

[JamesDMcBust]

I did send for the birth certificate of Benjamin Warwick Cabble - It arrived today and confirmed, as you had suggested, that his mother's maiden name was indeed "Ireland".  Well done all who helped. 

I had a quick look via ancestry.com at who might be related and there certainly are many "Irelands" in and around Milford at that time.  Obviously the next thing is to try and find out who she might be related to.  Is it possible without travelling to Hampshire to find a baptism for her which might give her parents' names?

[Little Nell]

I've looked at various sites which contain parish register transcriptions, but have only found extracts from both Lymington and Milford.  I didn't see any Ireland baptisms in those extracts. 

The IGI does not seem to be of any assistance.

The fact that Emily was baptised in Milford rather than Sherbourne where the pair married suggests that perhaps Catherine's parents still lived there.

Post 1813 (the closest I can get to) there is a couple Charles and Mary baptising children up to 1820.  Theoretically, they could be Catherine's parents.

Another couple named William & Mary - also children up to 1820.  Both couples seem to have married before 1813.

Only suggestions. 

Nell

[JamesDMcBust]

I thought I would have another go at solving who were my Catherine IRELAND's parents.

I have found an entry on Freesearch.org for a "Kittey" born to Robert and Elizabeth IRELAND at Pennington, Hampshire on 30 July 1801.

I have also found a marriage for Robert IRELAND and Elizabeth WHEELER on 7 January 1793 at Pennington.

On the 1841 census Robert and Elizabeth are listed as born 1766 and 1771 respectively.

I am considering whether this "Kittey" IRELAND could in fact be my Catherine IRELAND.  Kittey's baptism date on 1801 does fit in roughly with the census dates of birth and I am aware that the name Kittey is a shortened form of Catherine.

What do others think?

[Little Nell]

Pennington was a chapelry of Milford.  The baptism of Kitty Ireland is recorded in Milford parish registers on the date you gave.

As you say Kitty does seem to be used as a pet form of Catherine etc.  Having said that, my Dad had an Aunt Kit whose real name was Elizabeth. 

Nell

[JamesDMcBust]

Thanks for your comments Little Nel.  I have hit a wall with this lady since I started researching my family line many years ago and as far as I know no-one else researching this line of Cabbles have been able to pinpoint who she was and where she was baptised.  None of her children were called Kittey, Catherine, Caroline or Elizabeth - so no link there.  As she married Benjamin Cabble in Sherborne (some 20 miles or so from Keinton Mandeville where they eventually lived) I presume she was working there.  Even if I were to find out where she worked (possibly at a grand house, as servant) I don't suppose that would reveal anymore than what I know already.

Do you know whether there are any genealogy groups operating near Lymington, Hampshire who might be able to shed new light on this?

[Little Nell]

Hampshire Genealogical Society is the 'local' society.

I'm not sure how they might be able to help.  Transcriptions of some registers are more readily available and those transcriptions generally only record what it seen in the register.  The baptism in Milford records the name as Kitty, not Catherine, but perhaps later in life she wanted to use the unshortened version of the name.

The marriage entry itself in Sherborne may provide clues in the witness names.  But there again it may not.

Nell