Author Topic: Old-ish books as source of FH  (Read 2170 times)

Offline Lydart

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Old-ish books as source of FH
« on: Saturday 05 January 08 17:17 GMT (UK) »
I've got masses of books that belonged to my family, and looking through them the other day I suddenly realised what a source of FH they can be !  'Prize awarded to X at Such and Such School on Dec 1st 1910' ... etc ! 

Thats OK, and a good source of extra info I had ignored ... but what about the books themselves ?  Nowadays books have publishing date inside the fly leaf, but they havent always.  So is there any tried and tested method anyone can suggest for dating books ?  For e.g. I have an old Mrs Beeton inscribed 'To my wife, With love from Will' ... but don't know its date, so can't judge which Will it was (or which wife !)   Its one of those with adverts inside the back and front covers ... and photos of ancient vacuum cleaners.  Then there are school prizes of novels; poetry, etc. etc. all with no dates but with the names of owners ... I love to know when an aunt won a poetry book 'for progress' ... was it when she was 7 ... or 17 ? 

Any general ideas ??
Dorset/Wilts/Hants: Trowbridge Williams Sturney/Sturmey Prince Foyle/Foil Hoare Vincent Fripp/Frypp Triggle/Trygel Adams Hibige/Hibditch Riggs White Angel Cake 
C'wall/Devon/France/CANADA (Barkerville, B.C.): Pomeroy/Pomerai/Pomroy
Som'set: Clark(e) Fry
Durham: Law(e)
London: Hanham Poplett
Lancs/Cheshire/CANADA (Kelowna, B.C. & Sask): Stubbs Walmesley

WRITE LETTERS FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS TO TREASURE ... EMAILS DISAPPEAR !

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Offline Hackstaple

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Re: Old-ish books as source of FH
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 05 January 08 18:38 GMT (UK) »
Hi Lydart

Unfortunately there is no trusted method that can be applied although sometimes a search on Abebooks may reveal some dates. Professionals are able to date most such books by the method in which the illustrations are printed, or the covers decorated, or even the type-faces used or the kind of paper which may bear watermarks.

I do it all the time with somewhat earlier material for my little business but that does require a knowledge accumulated over many years.

The adverts may tell you something such as By Appointment - to Her Majesty the Queen - Her Late Majesty - The King. Sometimes they list medals won in shows and exhibitions. The first Hoover was produced in 1908 although the huge Booth suction cleaner dates to 1901. Ward Lock published most of the popular Mrs. Beetons, carrying adverts from 1907.  8)
Southern or Southan [Hereford , Monmouthshire & Glos], Jenkins, Meredith and Morgan [Monmouthshire and Glos.], Murrill, Damary, Damry, Ray, Lawrence [all Middx. & London], Nethway from Kenn or Yatton. Also Riley and Lyons in South Africa and Riley from St. Helena.
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Offline Lydart

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Re: Old-ish books as source of FH
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 05 January 08 18:40 GMT (UK) »
Gosh, Hack, great minds and all that !   I'd just thought of just that ... searching on Abe as I write !
Dorset/Wilts/Hants: Trowbridge Williams Sturney/Sturmey Prince Foyle/Foil Hoare Vincent Fripp/Frypp Triggle/Trygel Adams Hibige/Hibditch Riggs White Angel Cake 
C'wall/Devon/France/CANADA (Barkerville, B.C.): Pomeroy/Pomerai/Pomroy
Som'set: Clark(e) Fry
Durham: Law(e)
London: Hanham Poplett
Lancs/Cheshire/CANADA (Kelowna, B.C. & Sask): Stubbs Walmesley

WRITE LETTERS FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS TO TREASURE ... EMAILS DISAPPEAR !

Census information Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline old rowley

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Re: Old-ish books as source of FH
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 05 January 08 19:46 GMT (UK) »
There are a number of ways at "guessing" the age of a book by style of printing, the use of colour and the style of the way the pictures are presented, to items mentioned in the text. As you have mentioned that there are pictures of early vacuum cleaners and that at least is a starting point to go from, seeing that in the first edition of Mrs Beeton's  book (originally entitled, "The book of household management comprising information for the mistress, housekeeper, cook, kitchenmaid, butler, footman, coachman, valet, upper and under house-maids, lady's-maid, maid of all work, laundry-maid, nurse and nurse-maid, monthly wet & sick nurse, etc, etc, also a sanitary, medical, & legal memoranda: with the history of the orgin, properties, and uses of all those things connected with home life and comfort.") which was published in the October of 1861, has the small section (well small paragraph really) on sweeping the parlour carpet by a brush made from cocoanut fibre. This method would have prevailled until the horse drawn carpet cleaner made an appearence in 1901 when Hubert Booth drew a patent out on his devise. From 1908/09 Mrs Beeton's "Book of Household Management" (same book but the title shortened) may have been suggesting the use of the new invention of a portable electric vacuum cleaner which had been invented by the American James Murray Spangler in 1907. Spangler, having taken out his patent on his invention in 1907, sold his vacuum cleaners via his company "The Electric Suction Sweeper Company". One of his first customers was a cousin of his and her husband William, liked the invention so much that he first invested money in the company that Spangler had started and eventually he purchased the 1907 patent and became the head of the company. In 1922 William changed the company name and using his own surname it became "The Hoover Company" (just think you could be saying that you will "just run the Spangler over the carpet"..............nah just doesn't have that ring to it some how).

Getting back to the date of your Mrs Beeton's, if the pictures show an early Hoover then it could be after 1919 as this was the year that the Hoover Company opened its first factory in the UK.


old rowley
Claxton- East London & Essex<br />Cuthbert- Mile End East London <br />Edwards - East London & Essex<br />Goll- Norfolk<br />Harris-Mile End East London<br />Hurr - Suffolk<br />Law- Bethnal Green East London<br />Moll- East London<br />Robinson- Bethnal Green East London<br />Tait- Argyll & Glasgow<br />Thompson Shoreditch East london<br />Watson- Glasgow<br />Wood- Bethnal Green East London<br /><br />Local history interest; Noak Hill & Harold Hill Essex<br /><br />census information crown cop


Offline Lydart

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Re: Old-ish books as source of FH
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 05 January 08 20:28 GMT (UK) »
Thanks OR !   I might put up some of the pictures/ad's from that book ... they are great fun ! 


And I've found one of my other books on Abebooks, which has suggested a date for that one.   We need to be detectives at all sorts of things for this genealogy !   Only about 30 more to go ...
Dorset/Wilts/Hants: Trowbridge Williams Sturney/Sturmey Prince Foyle/Foil Hoare Vincent Fripp/Frypp Triggle/Trygel Adams Hibige/Hibditch Riggs White Angel Cake 
C'wall/Devon/France/CANADA (Barkerville, B.C.): Pomeroy/Pomerai/Pomroy
Som'set: Clark(e) Fry
Durham: Law(e)
London: Hanham Poplett
Lancs/Cheshire/CANADA (Kelowna, B.C. & Sask): Stubbs Walmesley

WRITE LETTERS FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS TO TREASURE ... EMAILS DISAPPEAR !

Census information Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline old rowley

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Re: Old-ish books as source of FH
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 05 January 08 21:04 GMT (UK) »
put some up Lydart and I will have a bash at trying to find out about any of the things shown. For a while I collected cookery books and had a good selection (out of 2,000 you would think that I could find something in them in relation to your book).

old rowley
Claxton- East London & Essex<br />Cuthbert- Mile End East London <br />Edwards - East London & Essex<br />Goll- Norfolk<br />Harris-Mile End East London<br />Hurr - Suffolk<br />Law- Bethnal Green East London<br />Moll- East London<br />Robinson- Bethnal Green East London<br />Tait- Argyll & Glasgow<br />Thompson Shoreditch East london<br />Watson- Glasgow<br />Wood- Bethnal Green East London<br /><br />Local history interest; Noak Hill & Harold Hill Essex<br /><br />census information crown cop

Offline Lydart

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Re: Old-ish books as source of FH
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 05 January 08 21:08 GMT (UK) »
OK ... give me time to find the book, plug in the scanner, scan and reduce ... maybe tomorrow ?!
Dorset/Wilts/Hants: Trowbridge Williams Sturney/Sturmey Prince Foyle/Foil Hoare Vincent Fripp/Frypp Triggle/Trygel Adams Hibige/Hibditch Riggs White Angel Cake 
C'wall/Devon/France/CANADA (Barkerville, B.C.): Pomeroy/Pomerai/Pomroy
Som'set: Clark(e) Fry
Durham: Law(e)
London: Hanham Poplett
Lancs/Cheshire/CANADA (Kelowna, B.C. & Sask): Stubbs Walmesley

WRITE LETTERS FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS TO TREASURE ... EMAILS DISAPPEAR !

Census information Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline old rowley

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Re: Old-ish books as source of FH
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 05 January 08 21:12 GMT (UK) »
okeypokey as my 12 year old says.

old rowley
Claxton- East London & Essex<br />Cuthbert- Mile End East London <br />Edwards - East London & Essex<br />Goll- Norfolk<br />Harris-Mile End East London<br />Hurr - Suffolk<br />Law- Bethnal Green East London<br />Moll- East London<br />Robinson- Bethnal Green East London<br />Tait- Argyll & Glasgow<br />Thompson Shoreditch East london<br />Watson- Glasgow<br />Wood- Bethnal Green East London<br /><br />Local history interest; Noak Hill & Harold Hill Essex<br /><br />census information crown cop

Offline Lydart

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Re: Old-ish books as source of FH
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 05 January 08 21:35 GMT (UK) »
Here's one I prepared earlier ...

Dorset/Wilts/Hants: Trowbridge Williams Sturney/Sturmey Prince Foyle/Foil Hoare Vincent Fripp/Frypp Triggle/Trygel Adams Hibige/Hibditch Riggs White Angel Cake 
C'wall/Devon/France/CANADA (Barkerville, B.C.): Pomeroy/Pomerai/Pomroy
Som'set: Clark(e) Fry
Durham: Law(e)
London: Hanham Poplett
Lancs/Cheshire/CANADA (Kelowna, B.C. & Sask): Stubbs Walmesley

WRITE LETTERS FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS TO TREASURE ... EMAILS DISAPPEAR !

Census information Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk