Joseph Herbert Hirst- Huddersfield

[Tati]

I think Sisterjane's family most definitely look like the ones Sarah Ann anyway! 

[Sisterjane]

Tati.. cast yer eye over this and tell me what you think!!!!

Firstly..I think the Sam Hirst/Ann Hirst marriage you found in 1864 is correct but I dont think her name was Hirst although she did live with a Hirst family in 1851 (HO107/2294/545/5 with her father Joseph)and 1861(RG9/3255/12/18) and is Mary Ann Whitehead.

The reason I think this is because on the 1881 cencus Ann gives her birthplace as Kirkheaton and having back tracked the Hirsts she lived with are also in Almondbury.

Further to that...The only likely Sam Hirst I can find in 1861 is living in Hipperholme (RG9/3275/66/20 and he is living with a Whitehead family!!!!!

Of course it could be well off the mark!!!!!!

Jane

[Tati]

So what's the whole scenario?  I can't get my head around it!

[Sisterjane]

And heres a good case for Joseph and Sarah Ann being Sams parents unless you have a birth cert or other details to the contrary....However he is not with his parents but very close by...see what you think..

1851-Almondbury
HO107/2294/269/41
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Joseph Hirst 33 head b Almondbury     Beer House Keeper
Sarah Ann 29 wife b          "

1851-Almondbury
HO107/2294/265/32
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Ben Batley 59 head b Almondbury   Ret Proprietor of Horses
Hannah " 56 wife b        "
Ann Hirst 12 Niece b       "
Sam Hirst 9 Nephew b    "
Joseph Hirst 82 Widow Father in Law b  " Ret Cloth Weaver

1841-Almondbury
HO107/1273/3-32-21
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All b Yorkshire

Joseph Hirst 70     Clothier
Lydia       " 66
Joseph Hirst Junior 20   Fancy weaver
Sarah      " 19
Ann 2
Ben Batley 49                   "          "
Hannah  " 45

Jane

[Sisterjane]

[So what's the whole scenario?   I can't get my head around it!

/quote]

Thats just it Tati I cant work it out LOL!!!!!!!!

Im trying to work out who is the Mother/father of Joe Herbert

Obviously Sam is not his father.....but the Ann Hurtley on the 1861 is possibly Sams sister and it could be that Joe Herbert is her child and that Sam and Ann adopted him for some reason

Jane

[Tati]

Yes, I agree that's the most likely story, Ann Hurtley being the Ann age 12 niece from 1851. Wish I could find the marriage or Ann's death though! 
 

[Sisterjane]

Hi Tati...Ive searched till im bog-eyed for the marriage but cant see anything....could be a mistranscription of Hartley but have you seen how many Hartleys there are and thats only in Yorkshire LOL!!!!!!!

However I cant see it being mistranscribed as its Hurtley in 61 and 81.....I will have another look while Joe is cooking tea!!..Stir Fry.......bit like my brain LOL!!!!!!

Jane

[annette ellen]

Hello Tati and Jane,

I am just as confused as you both are. I have got the death certificate and it has on it that Joseph died in 1919 aged 52 yrs, in another column it asks for name of Father and maiden name of Mother-- Sam Hirst,  Hotel Keeper,  Ann Hirst formerly Hirst.

Another column asks for where born and how long in the Australian States, stating which.  England,  - 36 - years in Victoria..

Next column asks If deceased was married, when and at what age and to whom.  Port Melbourne  -20 years.
 
He must of came out here at a young age , and I wonder with whom?

You have both been a great help to me although we are still wondering and hopefully it can all be sorted out.  Much appreciated,

Regards
Annette.

[Tati]

I don't doubt at all that he's the boy we found on census as Joe Hurtley and Joe Hirst - there doesn't seem to be any other candidate!

Now it would be interesting to get hold of the Joe Herbert Hurtley birth cert to find out whose son he really was. 

The fact he mentioned Sam & Ann as his parents doesn't prove they really were. If he was raised by them he'd obviously consider them as his parents and he wouldn't have had to produce any evidence.